The North Face needs to lighten up

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sorry, minimally related but I had Northface in my head . . .

I would love to find our more about this company's strategic marketing plan over the years, how they positioned themselves from a true outdoor functional line to a global fashion probably number one in popularity on city streets, suburban shopping malls, and school classrooms. This is a huge market and to them outweighed, the negative backlash from true outdoor enthusiasts. I am most curious not on the company themselves, but the marketplace-how did so many people get hooked on this brand who never set foot on a trail or in the wild. While perhaps good quality outdoor gear is still made and sold, it is just plain funny to see every jacket while walking down a city street, now have the Northface boldly printed on the back shoulder. I'm not badmouthing the Northface, just intrigued how this came to be.

Have other companies also headed down this path like Mountain Hardwear and Patagonia, or did corporate ownership resist the sales and income growth of full out mass merchandising?
 
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I too shake my head at this phenomenon. I don't really pay much attention to fashion, or even outdoor gear trends, but it hit me when my non-outdoorsy teenagers announced they wanted "North Faces." (in specific shades of pink and purple!) I thought "Don't they make tents?"

I might remember that a similar thing happened to Eddie Bauer a long time ago. I seem to remember that they sold serious expedition-type gear a long time ago, then they put their name on the styling of Ford Trucks and sell fashion in mall stores now. I bet there's a lot more money in those markets!
 
Personally, I think Patagonia is showing signs of WalMartizing their line, although not to the extent as Northface has. Haven't seen that in Mountain Hardware, nor Marmot, thank goodness.
 
adkayaker said:
Have other companies also headed down this path like Mountain Hardwear and Patagonia, or did corporate ownership resist the sales and income growth of full out mass merchandising?
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Pretty much every company that started life as an outdoor enthusiast brand has gone down this path if they've wanted to expand. The general market is MUCH bigger, and gear hounds are notoriously cheap. If you're willing to stay small and not make much money you can still target the enthusiast with $500 jackets, but if you can get your gear in Target you'll make a lot more. The reason they're successful is image and the fact the jackets people are wearing on the subway are really better than the alternatives.

All of these companies (including TNF) make some great gear, but that's not where the money is. Patagonia went down that route a long time ago. Mountain Hardware was founded by folks who were at TNF, SD, and others that have followed this path and wanted to get back to making gear so they're a bit more resistant.
 
David Metsky said:
If you're willing to stay small and not make much money you can still target the enthusiast with $500 jackets, but if you can get your gear in Target you'll make a lot more..... but that's not where the money is. .
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It always making more money. I think it cheapens the branding. Someone else will come along to fill the nitche they left void.
 
To me, it is desired performance from the fabric that I look for in managing moisture, warmth, breathability, etc. What company uses it is secondary although surely construction, durability, and fit might vary from low to high end. For example, I am personally convinced that Polartec Power Dry is one of the best baselayers. While perhaps I might buy a Northface or Patagonia product (on sale!) that uses this product, I have no hesitation in getting the REI, EMS, LL Bean, or Cabelas brand that uses this. I assume Power Dry is Power Dry.

The Northface Denali Jacket is a superb example of premium pricing. At $165, it is made of Polartec 300. One can find a Polartec 300 jacket on sale for $30.00 at stored mentioned above. Is the Northface jacket more durable, better built, etc or are you paying an extra $100+ for the logo? But don't ask the local teens to go to the mall with a fleece jacket that says Campmor on it.
 
Relating on price and branding - not too long ago I was told by a friend who worked in the outdoor industry for some time that my Black Diamond shovel that costs $70+ was made in the same factory as a shovel you could get at Fred Meyer (a sort of catch-all store like Wallmart) for $20. There is a lot of that around.
 
adkayaker said:
I am most curious not on the company themselves, but the marketplace-how did so many people get hooked on this brand who never set foot on a trail or in the wild.

QUOTE]

In the city areas, the trend of wearing "puffy" jackets could easily be dismissed as related to gang culture and hip-hop. In some aspects it is true.

It has been my experience, that the kids, 10-20 years ago in the city, started wearing these type jackets to make themselves appear "bigger". Again, an easy thing to dismiss if you don't live everyday in that enviroment. Once a fashion trend/music/pop culture happens in the inner city...it usually trickles out to suburbia. Just an observation.

peace.
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A few comments but I think you all are right on...

Eddie Bauer took a good brand and became a generic brand that stood for nothing. They went from about $50mm to about $1b and are now collapsing and struggling for survival. They will likely die off and no one will miss them.

Here's the way to make huge money in America, grow a business and sell it at the peak. Then let some other sap try to do the same. This is called the infinite fool theory.

TNF has grown but struggled to remain profitable at several times throughout the last 15 years. They started selling pink fleece to sorority sisters to survive, not by choice.

Timberland has (did a few years ago) three marketing teams; Rural (work boots), Urban (hip hop) and Suburban (college kids). And they seem to do a great job at it.

Patagucci seems to be picking up the pace of sellout. Coonyard almost lost the business back in the (from memory) early 80's and then brilliantly came out with this "Simple" BS. "Why have 10 colors when two will do?" (Because inventory almost killed you and your creditors kneecapped you).

At the same time; there are plenty of folks at OR who have been in the business for years, nearing retirement and don't have enough money socked away, no pension and no brand worth selling. Ugh!!!

But there are some great stories... Orvis has stayed very true to their niche and is doing several hundred million. Carhartt is everywhere but they have retained some soul.

My $0.02
 
Personally, I think Patagonia is showing signs of WalMartizing their line, although not to the extent as Northface has. Haven't seen that in Mountain Hardware, nor Marmot, thank goodness.
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I'm uncertain what the term "WalMartizing" means exactly, but Mountain Hardwear is owned by Columbia. See "general questions about our company":
http://www.mountainhardwear.com/FAQ.aspx

The mainstreaming of outdoor clothing has been going on for quite awhile now. I say if it keeps these companies from going under, then it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's nice stuff. Does a person have to climb a mountain to "earn" the right to wear a specific brand?

Stinkyfeet, sittin' here in a groovy Patagonia T :D
 
Chugach001 said:
Patagucci seems to be picking up the pace of sellout.
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It pains me to say this, but I agree. But as long as Patagucci still has a few things that you can't exactly get elsewhere, they still might have my business (although I am a perfect example of the aforementioned cheapskate outdoorperson). Looking at other brands' websites, I don't see much OR or Mountain Hardwear that I'm interested in. Golite is another one that's sold out quite a bit... their new line of quilts is heavier than warmer-rated sleeping bags from most other companies, too. Odd choice there. But every one of those companies sells a heck of a lot of Polartec 300 type jackets and down puffy jackets.

Wasn't Abercrombie & Fitch originally an outing goods store? I'd be terrified to see Patagonia or other similar brands go that way. I basically see the North Face as almost there.

Then again, as long as new brands pop up from time to time, or older brands stick with niche markets (Wild Things is still good, right?), there should still be "real" outdoors gear for us.
 
NewHampshire said:
Don't forget Abercrombie and Fitch also. They started out as a camping and outdoor outfitter....now they have half nude teenagers hawking cheap fashion gear. :rolleyes:

Brian
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Ah, Brian, you beat me to it by a few minutes :)
 
The North Face was bought several years ago and is a division of VF Corp (Vanity Fair), which owns many consumer brands. I got a Mountain Jacket in the late 1980s which at that time was an innovative top of the line Gore Tex jacket. The jacket is gone, but I still have the Denali jacket which zipped into the Mountain Jacket. My only complaint is that it is too hot for hiking, but it is still in great shape after 15+ years. Too bad TNF took the route of serving the young persons' consumer market and de-emphasized the specialty outdoor market--not that all their current products are bad, just mostly oriented differently.

If you can believe Mountain Hardwear's website, Columbia is letting them stay in the specialty market--let's hope it works. I like their stuff.
 
When I was back East last October I drove up to Freeport on rainy day as I needed to swap a pair of Cresta's at LL Bean. I stopped at the outlet stores for Patagonia and NF - I was disappointed - it was overpriced junk.

OTH - Patagonia has an outlet store near Reno, and when I travel north/south in CA I always go up US395 (far more scenic, although longer than I5) and it makes a good excuse to hit STP and REI, plus Cabela's has store nearby now (they've got some great winter boots, and don't sell them short on hiking clothing) in Reno, plus Patagonia, although you may need a GPS to find Patagonia. Anyway - I was impressed with that Patagonia outlet - good stuff, good prices, and the kind of eclectic selection you'd expect at an outlet.
 
I used to be a North Face addict but moved to Mountain Hardware ~6 yrs ago. I have LOTS of MH gear for every occasion and it never disappoints.
Wicked good stuff and seems virtually indestructible.

Now I know why NF is such a fashion statement if Vanity Fair bought them out. I know I'm profiling again but the mere name VF makes me shudder. I still have a few jackets in my closet.

Long live MH, but whatever happens I am geared up for years to come. Knowing I would be retiring several years ago, I did this intentionally. Didn't want to be caught short on a "fixed" income.
 
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