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Thread: Seedhouse SL1 modification/improvement

  1. #1
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Seedhouse SL1 modification/improvement

    Having bought, used and sold a Seedhouse 2, I was disappointed when I got the SL1 that the body ridge/spine was suspended from the pole by loops vs the clips used for the front facing poles. Clips allow you to set up the tent where you're standing vs having to back up with the pole rig and feed it through the loops along the length of the spine: Not a big deal in fine weather/daylight, but sucks in poor conditions/wind/low light.

    Soooo, I contacted my friendly neighborhood Big Agnes customer service stud, explained the deal, which he was immediately aware of and who was happy, for about $5, to ship me 6 clips (only needed 4) AND a Big Agnes sticker.

    Below are pics of the factory clip set-up and my modification (cut loop and square-knotted in the clip);




    Last edited by Chip; 12-23-2009 at 09:24 PM.
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  2. #2
    Poobah Emeritus darren's Avatar
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    Cool, thanks. I will fix mine that way too. I'm not a fan of the loops either.

    Instead of cutting the loop, did you try to pass the loop through the hole in the clip and then put the loop over the top of the clip and pull it back down the other side? If the loop is long enough it might be an easier way to secure it.

    - darren

    ps: BTW, if you look at the tent info online, it looks like they fixed this on the latest version of the tent - all the tie points are clips now. (use the zoom tool to see them)

    http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Tent/Seedhouse1
    Last edited by darren; 12-24-2009 at 06:37 AM.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darren View Post
    Instead of cutting the loop, did you try to pass the loop through the hole in the clip and then put the loop over the top of the clip and pull it back down the other side? If the loop is long enough it might be an easier way to secure it.
    nope, but I think you are correct, sir. perhaps I should've posted my intentions here first for ideas.

    the other thing I'd like on the sl1 is the "I" shape pole rig vs the "T" shape, so that the back end is spread vs having to stake it out, but...
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  4. #4
    Senior Member DougPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darren View Post
    Instead of cutting the loop, did you try to pass the loop through the hole in the clip and then put the loop over the top of the clip and pull it back down the other side?
    This knot is known as a girth hitch in climbing circles.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_hitch
    http://www.climerware.com/knot.shtml


    Chip:
    You might sew down the loose ends of the knots or switch to a figure-eight splice knot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure-eight_knot_(ropes)) or a grapevine knot (http://www.layhands.com/Knots/Knots_...FishermansKnot). The problem with the square knot is that is likely to loosen and slip if it is being shaken around by wind. Any of these three suggestions will reduce this problem. (The girth hitch is generally a better solution and is reversible if you change your mind.)

    One possible problem with any of these methods is that they are likely to alter the distance between the pole and the tent fabric which may change the tension in the fabric and change the "set" of the tent.

    A second possible problem is that the hooks might come off while being thrashed by high winds--I can't tell how tightly the hook clips to the pole from the picture.

    Doug
    Last edited by DougPaul; 12-24-2009 at 08:51 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member SAR-EMT40's Avatar
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    These are both great ideas, thanks guys. I love that tent but also don't like the stupid way they attach the spine.

    Keith
    "The real work of men was hunting meat. The invention of agriculture was a giant step in the wrong direction, leading to serfdom, cities, and empire. From a race of hunters, artists, warriors, and tamers of horses, we degraded ourselves to what we are now: clerks, functionaries, laborers, entertainers, processors of information."- Ed Abbey

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    Senior Member SAR-EMT40's Avatar
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    For flat pieces like webbing a water knot is a generally accepted knot type if you want to join the ends after cutting if you can't use the girth hitch.

    Keith
    "The real work of men was hunting meat. The invention of agriculture was a giant step in the wrong direction, leading to serfdom, cities, and empire. From a race of hunters, artists, warriors, and tamers of horses, we degraded ourselves to what we are now: clerks, functionaries, laborers, entertainers, processors of information."- Ed Abbey

  7. #7
    Senior Member DougPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR-EMT40 View Post
    For flat pieces like webbing a water knot is a generally accepted knot type if you want to join the ends after cutting if you can't use the girth hitch.
    You must not be a climber...

    The water knot is a good knot for webbing, but is particularly susceptible to loosening. (And should always have the loose ends tied/sewn down in critical applications. If you don't tie/sew the ends down, you have to constantly check and re-tighten the knot. Your safety will and life may depend on it.) I don't think water knots are used as much as they used to be--in fact, one of the remaining uses is in applications where you will want to untie them easily...


    Come to think of it, simply sewing the loose ends can be stronger than any knot. Take a look as some commercially sewn climbing slings for some examples of how to do it. The cut ends can also fray--seal them with a flame. (One normally cuts nylon webbing with a hot knife which will help seal the ends, but the flame treatment does a better job.)

    Doug
    Last edited by DougPaul; 12-24-2009 at 09:23 AM.

  8. #8
    Member Pulker Pete's Avatar
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    SL1 ... use ....

    Chip.. do you use this tent in Winter ? Just curious ... does it hold up well ?


    thx


    Pete Hutchings



    Central Ct




    "Its about the journey. Summiting is not necessarily the goal on every hike.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Lawn Sale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougPaul View Post
    One possible problem with any of these methods is that they are likely to alter the distance between the pole and the tent fabric which may change the tension in the fabric and change the "set" of the tent.
    Doug
    This problem can be eliminated by using either a small carabiner or flat webbing with which to make the girth hitch, so it bridges the gap.

    My North Col Expedition winter tent is setup that way as well, I may have to change it so it'd be much easier to setup.

    I wonder if you can get the clips elsewhere...I know Ragged Mt doesn't carry them, I looked.
    Appearances are not everything, it just looks like they are.




  10. #10
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    couple of things: I think Darrens loop idea is better than mine, but will extend the length of the clip from the tent body to the pole. I don't think that will matter though, as the distance is tiny. I think either of our options has the chance of loosening and losing the clip, but not under tension, like maybe the clip comes off in the stuff sack. Maybe this is why BA sent 6 clips when only 4 were requested. They also offer an option for $30 plus shipping to retrofit the clips at the factory, if you want them sewn in.

    Doug Pauls suggestions are good, but like I said, these clips won't loosen under tension in either case, perhaps while not under tension though.

    Pulker Pete; this tent would hold up great in an average CT winter, maybe not too well, though, in extreme cold/heavy wind/snow. Obviously it's not a mountaineering tent, but a solid, free standing, full fly tent that I would use in all but above tree line/severe weather situations.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougPaul View Post

    A second possible problem is that the hooks might come off while being thrashed by high winds--I can't tell how tightly the hook clips to the pole from the picture.

    Doug
    Doug, these are, I'm not sure what they're called, but the clips loop partially around the pole, so there's some pressure/adhesion there vs simply hung, pretty secure. thanks for your suggestions. now that I've cut my loops I will need to secure the square knots somehow.

    Merry Christmas, everybody. "Drive Fast, the Roads are Slippery."
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  12. #12
    Senior Member DougPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Doug, these are, I'm not sure what they're called, but the clips loop partially around the pole, so there's some pressure/adhesion there vs simply hung, pretty secure. thanks for your suggestions. now that I've cut my loops I will need to secure the square knots somehow.
    Hopefully the clips will stay. The thrashing due to high winds will likely put forces in any and all directions on the hooks. Only one way to find out...

    If you prefer to stick to square knots, I suggest that you sew the ends down. Should be pretty easy to do and you don't even need to do a good job of sewing. (A couple of passes with a machine would do it very quickly.)

    Another fix would be to put the pieces of webbing cut-end to cut-end, parallel the webbing with additional webbing and sew the additional piece on. It would be a bit stiffer, but could be almost as strong as the original if sewn properly. (Or if you really want to do the "proper" repair, you could split the seam, remove the old webbing from the tent body, replace it, and resew the seam. From your picture, it doesn't look like the seam has to be waterproofed.)

    FWIW, some of my old 1 inch webbing climbing slings are tied with a water knot with sewn ends. (Since I didn't have a testing machine to verify my sewing, the water knot takes the big forces and the sewing protects the water knot from untying.) I sewed a 3/4 inch square stitch line with diagonals.


    Just for reference: any knot reduces the strength of the line/webbing by at least a third (due to the bends in the line/webbing inside the knot). Sewing can be nearly as strong as the webbing. In this application, the knot may also increase the wear on the webbing against the hook.

    Doug

  13. #13
    Senior Member DougPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    couple of things: I think Darrens loop idea is better than mine, but will extend the length of the clip from the tent body to the pole. I don't think that will matter though, as the distance is tiny. I think either of our options has the chance of loosening and losing the clip, but not under tension, like maybe the clip comes off in the stuff sack.
    If you lose a clip or it keeps blowing off the pole, just thread the pole through the loop, just as you had to do before the mod. Maybe not as convenient as the hooks, but at least you can still pitch (or repitch ) the tent.

    They also offer an option for $30 plus shipping to retrofit the clips at the factory, if you want them sewn in.
    This obviously prevents one from losing the clips and one can still thread the loop if needed.

    Doug

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