Fitness levels and training (What the HECK!!?)

Ok...so...while reading the discussion about calories and hiking (oh, I usually stay about the same weight wise...or a little more...after a hike...I'm very, very careful about my calories/protein/fat/carbs 99% of the time and wouldn't TOUCH any of the hiking foods...EXCEPT while hiking!! Hey, what can I say...hiking gives me a legit excuse to eat POPTARTS!!)

Anyway...

Question, as stated above, I'm relatively healthy and active. I go to the gym and give 110% to strength training 4 days per week (about 1 - 1.25 hr of good weight exercises) and do interval cardio 2-3 times per week (about 15 min or so). I'm VERY Careful what I eat and even use Excel to assure what I eat is within what I should eat (and I do it BEFORE I eat and stick to it)

However...when hiking...I am quite slow. We average a little less more than 1 mile per hour (usually a 10 mile hike that isn't excessively steep, technically difficult takes us about 8 hrs). The killer is the up hills...they KILL ME!!! I end up huffing and puffing after quite a very short time. Also, we are usually DONE after a 12 mile hike...and were damn near DEAD after one that is 14 miles (in the early summer no less!!) True, we usually over pack (our winter packs usually hit the 30 - 40 lb range) but still...I work out and am fairly fit!!! What the heck?

I see on this forum some who (please don't be offended) do not "appear" fit but who really BURN THOSE TRAILS!! And would think nothing about doing a 20 miler as a day-hike...regardless of the steepness!!!

SO...what the HECK am I doing wrong?

Less weight lifting more walking and more intervals.

One way to get faster at X is to do X, and while training to do intervals of X. Usually a treadmill or stairmaster has an interval mode. At the end of each interval you will want to be pretty spent. There's plenty of applicable writing on the internet on this already, and even though you are in decent shape, you don't want to do 6-8 all-out intervals on your first day. (Yesterday's 1200 cal/hr 380 watt 6-7 minute interval is definitely noticeable this morning...) Personally I'd recommend longer intervals over sprint intervals - this is climbing training versus sprinting training for the bike racer.

Back when I was bike racing the weight training was very specific - 2-3 sets X 15-20 reps at low weights for 2-4 weeks and building to 6-8 sets X 6-8 reps at high weights (fast-twitch, sprint.)

I'm watching yard sales for an el-cheapo backpack which I don't mind trashing with sweat and which I can fill with sand and use on the stairmaster.

Tim

Hmmm...interesting. Is the weight lifting HURTING? I really enjoy this and would rather change up or increase the cardio intervals (even though I HATE non-hiking/biking/skiing cardio) if that's what it takes.

As for hiking more....would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE (ok, you get it I'm sure) to do this!!! But...we have 4 kidos and live about 3 - 4 hrs from the "good" hikes (cannot take our kids on these). Hubby works every other weekend and my mom (the babysitter) is getting older and isn't always up to this...

As for cardio, however:

I've actually started the treadmill interval thing differently.

I was doing 45 sec at 8.0 mph/1% grade then 90 sec at 4.2 mph/1% grade.

I've started doing 45 sec at 4.5 mph/12% grade then 90 sec at 4.0/2% grade...

If that's you in your avatar, you look pretty skinny. 40 pounds would slow me down and I might weigh 2x as much as you do! I'd recommend investing in lightweight but functional gear. And, if you and hubby are ALWAYS together, consider sharing gear. Also, Winter hiking, breaking trail, etc., can be pretty slow. I've gone on 10 milers that took 7 hours, and I did not think we were crawling along.

Tom Rankin said:

If that's you in your avatar, you look pretty skinny. 40 pounds would slow me down and I might weigh 2x as much as you do! I'd recommend investing in lightweight but functional gear. And, if you and hubby are ALWAYS together, consider sharing gear. Also, Winter hiking, breaking trail, etc., can be pretty slow. I've gone on 10 milers that took 7 hours, and I did not think we were crawling along.

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Thank you thank you thank you (you should see my PR photo...272lbs...no seriously!!!)

Anyway...We try to share gear and always hike together. It's usually a too many cloths/food/stuff thing (got to be prepared, right?)

The interesting thing is...that's about our SUMMER hiking speed too...

bikehikeskifish said:

Less weight lifting more walking and more intervals.

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I agree completely. I would also try to isolate what may be slowing you down.

Start with an ideal situation: On a nice summer day, if you were to go for a two-mile hike with no pack, how long would it take? If you did two of these hikes in the same day, would your pace be the same for each or would it get slower for the second one? In this exercise, you're trying to gauge whether the pack (of any nominal weight) is slowing you down.

Work to identify your repeatable pace. You can always scale (up or down) the mileage and/or trail difficulty.

Just remember, people who run marathons don't train by running 26 miles each day.

My two cents

For what it's worth, I don't think the strength training is hurting, but I agree with the previous post that adding endurance and interval training would be useful. Years ago, I asked the top 10K racer in the area (who also holds the speed record up Monadnock - under 24 minutes!) what advice he had for training. He laughed and said "Jack Daniels." Turns out he was being serious: Dr. Jack Daniels has a PhD in exercise physiology, won a silver medal in the 1956 Olympics and has been the coach of a number of national champion cross-country teams. He's also be a coach to top marathoners like Joan Benoit Samuelson. I recommend his book: Daniels' Running Formula as the piece of your training you may be needing. As for the OTHER Jack Daniels, that's up to you.

I'm no exercise coach, but some longer-duration cardio work (i.e. workouts at 65-70% of max HR, working your way up into the 1-2 hour range) might do wonders for you. It does for me. I'm not always the runner I was this year (ran a 4 hour marathon in October) but in general I find that the seasons I'm regularly doing 10K and longer runs (i.e. something on that scale weekly, at least), I'm twice the hiker that I am the years I don't.

This happens to be something I know a lot about. I'm a Boxing trainer as well as a strength/conditioning coach for Golden Gloves boxers.

You need to consider what type of strength you're trying to cultivate here. Do you want to be strong or do you want strength endurance? Two VERY different things indeed. Being strong would be bench pressing a given amount of weight for a given amount of repetitions followed by a break between sets. Thats fine except hiking/climbing is nothing like that. What you're really after is full body strength endurance.

The formula is simple: strength endurance = weight + volume + limited to no rest period.

Strength endurance is NOT cardio, it's totally different. There are a number of very effective methods one can use to achieve a high level of strength endurance. Weight training makes you "strong" but as you're experiencing it does nothing for your functional strength (aka strength endurance). Plyometrics, body weight exercises and kettlebell training are all great ways to improve your strength endurance. Applying the Tabata protocol to any of those will make your strength endurance shoot through the roof. Your current program of strength training 4 days a week for 1 hour plus is WAY too much time spent in the gym. My competitive boxers don't spend that long in the gym because there is no need to. 45 mins MAXIMUM 3 day a week is all you need IF you're doing the right things while your there.

What kind of weight training? Lower back, squats, lunges, leg presses, leg extensions, and leg curls are what I focus on. In particular, the free weight (as opposed to machine-based) exercises do the most for me, because it's all those little balance muscles that come into play keeping you upright and aligned when hiking with a pack on over uneven terrain. Next time you feel ready to add more weight, add more reps instead. You want a tone type of strength, not a "brute" strength.

GREAT INFO

Usually the hour on strength is 3 sets with mixed up reps (depending on weights being used...) back to back muscle groups with little to no rest (just enough to get from one thing to the other or to change weights). Change up the reps, order, weight at least every training session and then the routine itself about every 6 weeks or so.

I do not use machines very often...mostly free weights and cables. I do 2 days lower body and 2 days upper.

I have looked at kettlebell/plyometric exercises but don't have any good routines. I don't know enough about them to make up my own (yet...I've very comfortable with standard weight training and making up my own routines). I know that there are a lot of resources on the net...and books. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and start learning about these, huh?

The killer is the up hills...they KILL ME!!! I end up huffing and puffing after quite a very short time

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This is what makes me think we're barking up the wrong tree. The problem here has to do with cardio fitness. Jogging, running, XC skiing ...

In my opinion if you want to improve your strength endurance you must abandon your current methods and change your focus. What you're currently doing in the gym is clearly not giving you the end result you're after. I can take any of my boxers, throw a 40 lb backpack on them, have them hike across Franconia Ridge and I know they would get across the ridge faster than 80% of seasoned hikers that get out there every weekend. I've actually tried this and they blew the others away.

It's all in the training and the mindset.

mirabela said:

This is what makes me think we're barking up the wrong tree. The problem here has to do with cardio fitness. Jogging, running, XC skiing ...

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Cardio fitness has nothing to do with it. It's all about strength endurance here. Cardio fitness is a by product of having strength endurance.

Hmmm....I am definitely not getting some of what I want out of my routine (although, I'm quite proud of the cut and tone that I've got right now )

Ok...so...maybe...

1. change the leg days to kettlebell/plyo days (found one that's basically a ladder of burpees -1, 2, 3, 4-with a 2-handed swing x 10 in between)

2. keep the high incline treadmill intervals (increasing duration of interval and decreasing rest time) to 2 - 3 days per week (2 being on my "upper body" day and the other an off day?). Maybe add a weighted backpack as I get going.

Am I getting close?

For strength-endurance you typically do longer sets (more reps) and lower weights (I do 25-35 reps on the leg press for example) and aim more for core and multi-joint exercises. I do a full body weight training 2 or 3 times per week, and I do the sets in circuits as I can keep my HR higher w/o fatiguing the same muscles - do some shoulder or core work while legs are recovering from last set.

Strength-endurance also comes from the longer, sub-maximal intervals.

FWIW, I have a "diesel" engine - I'm mainly slow-twitch. The only time I won a sprint was in a breakaway of 4. In a pack sprint I'd get top 10 if I was very lucky.

Also, do your treadmill/stairmaster with that extra 40 pounds

Tim

Since our focus was hiking mountains, we found that the Stairmaster was the key to being ready for those climbs. Good to keep the rest of your body in shape, but for CLIMBING, practice CLIMBING. 45 minutes of "this is killing me" level, two or three times a week will make those climbs easier.
Also, I am light...no extra body fat, but a 30-40 pound pack would finish me.
Just carrying those extra 4 pounds of snowshoes last week made a BIG difference in my speed.

I hate to tell you but you're wrong about using lighter weight. Strength endurance comes from heavy weight, no rest and long sets. You don't have to believe me but I've been doing this for a long time with excellet results. Do Google search on how to gain strength endurance and you'll see I'm right.

Do you agree you do lower weight/higher reps then you would for explosive, fast-twitch efforts?

Tim

I've been a runner for the past 40 years so my experience might not be relevant for you, but I do get asked the same question from time to time by my kids who don't have endurance, but a lot more strength than I do.

Its important to understand that you have fast twitch and slow twitch muscles in your body. The fast twitch give you strength and explosive speed. The slow twitch give you endurance. Everyone has a different mix that will determine how fast they can go or how far they can go. You can also train the different muscles differently based on which you have a larger number of.

From your workout description you lead to your strength which is probably in the fast twitch muscle group. Sounds like you need more of a balance in your workout. My suggestion would be something like using an elliptical trainer with a variable hill workout. You can use the easier parts of the workout to improve your stride turn over (major factor in speed) and use the hills part to train your body to maintain its pace on hills.

Finally piece of advice is the obvious, there are no awards given to finishing a hike fast, its about enjoyment, so the best advice is to not bring a watch and spend more time enjoying the view (at least that is what my wife tells me ).