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Thread: FYI: Northern Pass High Voltage Transmission Project

  1. #526
    Senior Member Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    http://indepthnh.org/2017/12/14/nort...e-of-the-line/

    Interesting that HQ is planning on burying 12 miles of NP on the Canadian side of the border. More interesting is the cost per mile which is much lower than NP had claimed. As far as I know, no party has really done any preliminary boring along any possible road alignments to establish underground conditions in Coos county so it comes down to whose opinion not based on facts should be used to justify a long term scar on the land in northern NH.

    The fact that they plan to bury the line across the border in Canada but not in NH is of course plain and simple BS. Arrogant BS.

    Push back from Massachusetts:

    https://commonwealthmagazine.org/opi...ower-not-want/

    Hydro Quebec would prefer you did not know about the devastation their dams are causing for native populations of people in Canada. Supporting NP is supporting this.
    Humankind has not woven the web of life.
    We are but one thread within it.
    Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
    All things are bound together.
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  2. #527
    Senior Member Barkingcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    The fact that they plan to bury the line across the border in Canada but not in NH is of course plain and simple BS. Arrogant BS.

    Push back from Massachusetts:

    https://commonwealthmagazine.org/opi...ower-not-want/

    Hydro Quebec would prefer you did not know about the devastation their dams are causing for native populations of people in Canada. Supporting NP is supporting this.
    Exactly -- and very little has changed since the release of Seeking the Current, what -- six, seven years ago?

  3. #528
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    FYI, NHPRs OutsideIn radio show did 4 half hour stories in depth on the HQ dams and the impact to the tribes and environment of the area. http://outsideinradio.org/powerline/

    I havent had time to listen to them, but was already familiar with the story. The US does not have an exclusive on treating indigenous peoples poorly, its just that there is just far less press coverage.

    Most of the New England states have or had laws on the books that prevent HQ power being treated as being renewable. When VT was pushing to have the nuclear power plant closed while continuing to reduce their carbon impact the easy way was to declare HQ renewable, they did so without a lot of debate and the final vote was at the tail end of session prior to Christmas recess. It also helped that two of the largest power utilities in the state were conveniently bought by Canadian firms that have ties to HQ. Mass has or will soon declare HQ power renewable after a lot of lobbying by Eversource and HQ. Unfortunately HQ is just international NIMBY.

  4. #529
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    250 million spent to date by Eversource

    http://www.unionleader.com/article/2...WS05/171229898

  5. #530
    Senior Member CaptCaper's Avatar
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    So true... if they only buried it first. ha.. and some one will pay for the extra expenses. Not us? one way or the other will be paying cost's that get passed down the food chain.

  6. #531
    Senior Member Barkingcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    So true... if they only buried it first. ha.. and some one will pay for the extra expenses. Not us? one way or the other will be paying cost's that get passed down the food chain.
    And to that point, from the article:

    “If they spent $249 million burying more of the line, they might already have it operational by now,” said project foe Jack Savage from the Society for the Protection of New Hampshire Forests.

  7. #532
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    Much as I would like it to be, the reality is the project that size even buried along roadways would eat up 10% of the budget up front so based on 1.8 Billion that would be 180 million they woudl have spent anyhow . They may be in the hole for the land purchases and extra churn related to poor strategic planning but my guess would be possibly in the 50 to 80 million range for "extra costs".

    What is most likely more the case is they would be 2/3rds through the construction and probably up be near end of construction. Its two years of profits that is the big loss. The Mass Clean power RFP probably wouldnt exist in its current form if NP was on line and NP would be a shoe in, given the delay with NP and the lack of SEC permit, NP could get locked out of the Mass RFP.

    SPNHF's has a fairly interesting summary

    http://mailchi.mp/forestsociety/spec...s?e=adc54da1fc
    Last edited by peakbagger; 12-23-2017 at 09:26 AM.

  8. #533
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    An interesting viewpoint

    https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2017/12/2...lic-debate-us/

    FYI, due to mostly a lack of natural gas pipeline capacity New England power generation has been running on a very high percentage of oil during this cold snap.

  9. #534
    Senior Member psmart's Avatar
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    U.S. Forest Service - White Mountain National Forest
    USDA Forest Service Issues Final Decision to Permit the Northern Pass Transmission Line

    January 5, 2018 Today the USDA Forest Service issued a final record of decision to authorize the use and occupancy of National Forest System lands by Northern Pass Transmission, LLC (Northern Pass) to construct, operate, and maintain an electrical power transmission line crossing portions of the White Mountain National Forest (WMNF) in Grafton County, New Hampshire.

    Analyzed in the Northern Pass Transmission Line Project Environmental Impact Statement, the final decision authorizes construction of the powerline across the WMNF. The powerline will be buried within the roadway and shoulder areas along NH Routes 112 and 116.

    The White Mountain National Forest will work with the Northern Pass to issue the necessary special use authorizations with appropriate mitigations to allow the installation, operation, and maintenance of the project on National Forest System lands.

    This decision only approves this project on NFS lands while the decision to approve the remaining portions of the project on state and private lands is the responsibility of the New Hampshire Site Evaluation Committee. The decision to cross the international border rests with the Assistant Secretary of Energy.

    More information on the Forest Service record of decision can be viewed at https://www.northernpasseis.us/

    Record of Decision at http://media.northernpasseis.us/atta...18_secured.pdf

  10. #535
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    It sure beats the original proposal to cut across the National Forest with towers and overhead lines.

  11. #536
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    How much money would they have saved if burying the lines along the roadways was the in the original proposal?

  12. #537
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    I don't think anyone will ever know objectively. NP was intended to be a quick and dirty project to get a transmission line in quickly. Eversource represented that they could leverage rate payer owned assets to build on existing right of ways quickly and that they had the political clout to bulldoze any opposition. If not for the their inadvertent mistake of pissing off well off landowners and the SPNHF in the Bethlehem Franconia and Easton area there really wasnt any formal opposition that could coalesce quickly enough to stop it. Folks like Jim Dannis (father of Larisa Dannis who used to post on VFFT), realized they needed to move quickly and connected up with the AMC and SPNHF and someone brilliantly came up with the concept of "saving the north country" as there was no existing right of way in far northern NH. Using that approach they also got political support to prevent access to eminent domain for the project and that delayed locking in a right of way for quite awhile and ultimately made the line longer due to its emandering path. Several national environmental organizations lined up with the coalition and despite previous claims to the contrary ended up realizing the project was dead unless they buried the line thru the WMNF and the towns where influential landowners were abundant. The claim is 250 million spent to date but I dont think there is way of establishing the value of the ongoing delay and loss of credibility. Eversource has sold their major generating assets in the state (subsidized by ratepayers) and effectively if going to be far smaller but still significant company in the state. The local management staff know this and realize that in the end even if NP is built, many folks will not be ending their career in NH. The CEO of Eversource and his lieutenants all have bet the careers on NP and it questionable they would survive if ts not approved.

  13. #538
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    An update on the current state of things https://manchesterinklink.com/d-day-...northern-pass/

    The legal briefs by the opposing sides that I have read make for some interesting reading. I expect there will be appeals filed whatever the SEC decides and then it goes into the judiciary. The state supreme court has already had opportunities to impact the project but generally has been holding back from making rulings that would stop the process. I expect they realize its all going to end in their lap eventually so might as well let it run its course through the SEC. Unlike the legislature and the governor, Eversource's open checkbook probably has had a lot less influence on the courts. I do not see how the court can go through an appeal quickly although I expect Eversource is going to do what they can to force a decision as the project quickly as looses a lot of relevance if its delayed to the point where the Mass clean power RFQ passes them by.

    CMP and NGRID have both ramped up activity on their alternative plans that have far less public opposition (although I expect Friends of the Maine Mountains will crop up one of these days to oppose the CMP project).

    One possible outcome is that Eversource's management may be looking for serious cover if the project fails, 250 million spent to date is something the shareholders will probably be very unhappy about. Having a court rule against it is as good cover as they can get.

    I wonder if there is gong to have to be special legislation to support the legions of unemployed lawyers and legal staff on both sides of the project . I expect its been a prime source of revenue for 4 or 5 years.

  14. #539
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    While the SEC deliberations in NH are starting, the Conservation Law Foundation is taking the lead to convince the governor of Mass and the Clean Power RFP group that NP is not a good one to bet on. http://indepthnh.org/2018/01/21/cons...-mass-rfp-bid/ Interestingly Eversource is one of the parties to the Mass RFP review. The claim is there is "firewall" between the part of the company that is participating in the ranking of the RFP and the part of the company that is desperate to get the project approved as part of the RFP. Must be a pretty darn good firewall

    Meanwhile Governor LePage in Maine is issued an order shutting down all new Wind Power applications in the state. There are several projects in the Mass Clean Power RFP that depend on permitting and installing several large new wind farms. http://bangordailynews.com/2018/01/2...nergy-permits/. One of the competing transmission lines to NP that would carry Canadian hydro happens to run through Western Maine. I believe he supports that particular project.

    And to further make things interesting ISO New England is weighing in on the need for more natural gas lines and transmission lines from Canada to access hydro power http://www.masslive.com/news/index.s...al_gas_pi.html

    Anyone of these gambits involve potentially billions in upfront costs and a virtual guarantee on profits. All the big players are figuring out where on the chess board they want to be so in the end they get their cut.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 01-24-2018 at 02:09 PM.

  15. #540
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    Looks like Mass has decided to go with Northern Pass

    http://renews.biz/109943/northern-wi...husetts-prize/

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