Wilderness Thoughts

So I'm in the Pemi, a ways Down the Cedar Brook Trail not all that far from the Wilderness Trail and I find a logging road or rail line in the woods not on the trail. I spotted it in the dark and sure enough in the morning, there it was clearly distinct. It eventually becomes part of the Cedar Brook Trail where the trail approaches the river.

To get to the first point: I was under the impression that the last logging in the Pemi occurred at least 90 years ago (early 1920's) and most of it longer ago than that, yet these roads/rail lines are still very distinct and surprisingly free of trees older than 5-10 years. So why don't trees grow there now? What kinds of nasty stuff did they use to keep the line vegetation free? You see the same effect at the old camps along the wilderness trail too and in one thread here Dave M. has a picture of Owl's Head Mtn. where you can see the line distinctly from great distance.

My next point is hopefully not too political: I can only remember a few fire rings that I have seen that were NOT illegal. I saw a dozen sites this weekend that were too close to the trail, too close to the water or both and one site with a fire still burning! I know that the rangers see this and I dread what may come of it. I spoke to a ranger this summer who told me that it was his pet peeve to see people make fire rings a) that were illegal and b) unnecessary (LNT). I see a time in the near future where fires are not allowed in the WMNF because people just won't follow the rules.

OK last point: The bridge removal projects are supposed to be partly to bring the wilderness to its wild state yes? So why then are all of the bridge parts still littered all over the trail? The wood is stacked up and covered in lovely green tarps and the cable is lying stretched out over 100 yards of trail. Seems to me if you are trying to return to wilderness you practice LNT for your bridge removal. This one doesn't bother me so much, but does seem a little hypocritical.

I agree with you on the LNT for the bridge removal.

One arguement I've heard made is: the removal of bridges results in fewer people crossing the river and thus reduces use and impact for the area beyond the bridge crossing. So with less impact, the wilderness is more "protected." This was a point made by a fellow hiker and not the NFS, but it did make some sense to me.

Wilderness, as it relates to federal land, isn't necessarily a state of being but rather a work in progress.
Hopefully in a couple of generations folks will be able to enjoy a more wild area then we can right now.

Regarding illegal camping and LNT. It is my opinion that education is the most effective way to modify behavior. Why do you think folks bother to build fire rings? Smokey the Bear?

It might be helpful to not only let folks know that these issues are illegal/contrary to popular beliefs but what is legal and/or popular practices.

There is a tongue in cheek term for people like me who love trains: Ferroequinologist. (my spell check doesn't like that word). For years I shunned the peaks in favor of what I called horizontal climbing and explored the old railroad beds. I really like history!

From Logging Railroads of the White Mountains by C. Frances Belcher, AMC 1980, Page 143:

"Camp 22 on the east side of Mt Bond was a big operation in the Parker/Young era. Another was the new line they laid one and a half miles up Cedar Brook to get to the untouched northern flanks of Mts. Hitchcock and Hancock from Camps 16, 24, 24A, and 24B between 1927 and 1946"

And from Page 144:"Except for yard switching operations, 1948 marked the end of the East Branch Line."

As to bridge, I'll keep quiet except to say I liked it and I wish it were still there.

I never build fires while backpacking, stoves are so much easier and cleaner.
Bob

mahony said:

I can only remember a few fire rings that I have seen that were NOT illegal. I saw a dozen sites this weekend that were too close to the trail, too close to the water or both and one site with a fire still burning! I know that the rangers see this and I dread what may come of it.

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If the fire rings were legal, you probably couldn't see them from the trail

The desired goal is to get people to camp out of sight of the trail but people are too lazy to seek out such sites which by definition can't be seen from the trail hence take more time to find. Fires are built where people camp hence one solution would be to put No Camping signs at desirable visible sites but of course the extra signs would not be compatible with Wilderness

mahony said:

So why then are all of the bridge parts still littered all over the trail? The wood is stacked up and covered in lovely green tarps and the cable is lying stretched out over 100 yards of trail.

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Perhaps the plan is to drag them out in winter with less impact?

From the final decision paper:

Remove the steel I-beam bridge over Black Brook: Time and weather permitting,
after the suspension bridge is removed the steel I-beam bridge over Black
Brook will be dismantled with hand tools and removed from the wilderness
with stock animals in winter. This bridge will be removed via the Wilderness
Trail to Lincoln Woods Trailhead. Disassembly of this bridge may overlap into
the fall of 2010 depending on 2009 progress and resource availability.

I contacted the Pemi district last year about removal of the bridge materials. At the time, they were planning to put this out for bid and determine the best means of removal, be it horses, dog sleds, etc. To my knowledge, they still haven't put this out for bids.

psmart said:

To my knowledge, they still haven't put this out for bids.

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Despite being in a terrible rush to start the saws and demolish the bridge. I can see not wanting to move the mess until the ground is frozen and/or snow covered, but if the debris is still littering the area when the snow melts in 2011 I think the Pemi Ranger district should "fine itself" by not charging for parking at Lincoln Woods until the mess is cleaned up. It's ruining the "wilderness experience" more than the intact bridge.

smitty77 said:

Despite being in a terrible rush to start the saws and demolish the bridge. I can see not wanting to move the mess until the ground is frozen and/or snow covered, but if the debris is still littering the area when the snow melts in 2011 I think the Pemi Ranger district should "fine itself" by not charging for parking at Lincoln Woods until the mess is cleaned up. It's ruining the "wilderness experience" more than the intact bridge.

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IMHO, they should have had the entire removal plan worked out before the bridge was dismantled. Removing the materials could easily turn out to be the bigger challenge.

Speaking of wilderness (RIP beloved suspension bridge )... What about the Thoreau Falls Trail bridge???? Maybe it's in a report somewhere, but, that was looking a little iffy a couple years ago. Will it be maintained????

Great discussion. I didn't realize the RR's were still active so recently, but even 60 years still seems long to not grow any real trees. Any idea on what they used to keep the vegetation down?

I spend quite a bit of time off trail and I see the fire rings there too (again usually next to a river), so even though I see more on trail I know that the rule breaking happens everywhere.

The notion of planning the complete bridge removal at the start of the job is what I'm talking about. Seems they should have planned out the whole thing from the get go. The parts look very heavy for human or dog teams though.

I dont think they used chemicals to keep the trees from growing in the right of ways. I think the combination of removal of the topsoil and replacement with compacted gravel and sand is probably the major impediment to tree regrowth. Most of the trees in the area evolved to regenerate into loose "duff" variety of topsoil in the area and that takes a long time to regenerate. As the trees will preferably grow in the best soil, they will out compete whatever tries to grow in the compacted area, leading to rapid shading of the compacted area, which cuts back even further on significant regeneration.

I do note that on occasion there are very distinct bands of white birches growing in old logging cuts on the hillsides, but I suspect that the amount of preparation of the road bed was far less if they were used strictly for one harvest.

You can quite clearly see, especially in winter, terraces which were used to bring logs to a central point before sliding them down the mountain. Hancock from Bondcliff is a prime example of this:



There are distinct parallel lines sloping down to the left across the entire front side.

Tim

Interesting view of the terraces. You find terraces all over the Adirondacks, too. I often wondered if they were connected with logging from many years ago.

On the vegetation, I was thinking the same, it takes a long time to get topsoil back when you've replaced it with packed sand and gravel. I wonder if the creosote in the ties also has an effect? It was not used to prevent vegetation, but to prevent the ties from rotting, but it might do both...

On the bridge: I don't hike in that area, but I followed the news at the time. My impression is that FS was rushing to knock down the bridge as fast as possible, because they knew it would be an unpopular action. Once it's knocked down, the decision is irrevocable, and they don't have to worry about it being reversed. Now it doesn't matter how long it takes to clean up...

bikehikeskifish said:

There are distinct parallel lines sloping down to the left across the entire front side.

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I always thought those were the contour lines....

David Metsky said:

I always thought those were the contour lines....

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And have you ever noticed the change in temperature when you pass over one of them?

Some of the differences in vegetation on those old logging roads is probably due to horse, mule and oxen manure. Keep in mind, that at least in the Whites which was logged-over on more than one occasion, that draft animals trudged up and down those road hauling logs. Under those conditions, they're prodigious poopers, and that fertilizer changes the soil chemistry in the immediate area, so different plants and trees might grow, and at different rates, than in other areas away from the roads.

Kevin Rooney said:

Some of the differences in vegetation on those old logging roads is probably due to horse, mule and oxen manure. Keep in mind, that at least in the Whites which was logged-over on more than one occasion, that draft animals trudged up and down those road hauling logs. Under those conditions, they're prodigious poopers, and that fertilizer changes the soil chemistry in the immediate area, so different plants and trees might grow, and at different rates, than in other areas away from the roads.

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Er, I think they used steam engines to drive the trains, not draft animals.

Peakbagger has come up with the answer.

Aren't those lines on Hancock just the old skidder roads?

And I think draft animals were used on the skidder roads?

erugs said:

And have you ever noticed the change in temperature when you pass over one of them?

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Clearly they're isotherms! Brilliant!

MichaelJ said:

Aren't those lines on Hancock just the old skidder roads?

And I think draft animals were used on the skidder roads?

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Exactly. Either publication that I know of on the subject is very interesting and worth the read.

I have "J.E. Henry's Logging Railroads: The History of the East Branch & Lincoln and the Zealand Valley Railroads" by Bill Gove. Fantastic book loaded with historic pictures, documentsm etc... IIRC, the most board feet of timber was hauled out of the Hancock area. There's another one I've seen out there, the name is "Logging Railroads of the White Mountains."

And on the original subject. Judging by the abundance of firerings you noticed, I doubt baring fires all together will stop the ill-informed (thoughtless? careless?) individuals that build those rings from having fires. Wouldn't bother me though, by the time I get to camp I'm too lazy 90% of the time to seek out fire wood and start one up anyways...