Vt 5 4000'

Hi,
Were looking into doing the five Vermont four thousand footers in one day in the near future. I haven't really found any information out there on the web about this adventure. Does anyone have any suggestions about routes?? Time? We're planning on doing Killington first. Then Ellen and Abraham. Then finish with Mansfield and Camel's Hump. Are there any speed records out there for winter ascents for all five?

Thanks in advance!

Greg.

Frodo has a thread from back in the day when the snow was always 10 feet deep men wore bearskin snowsuits and the womenz the seal skin.

Thanks!! That's perfect and kind of on the same timeline we were planning. Just like to know where they stopped for pizza!

Add The Nose if you can, the USGS thinks it's a 4k peak even if the AMC doesn't:
http://vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37758

Now THAT was a fun day! We did it without crew, so if you can talk someone into helping out, you can save time on the Ellen-Abe traverse. To say, if ours is the record (or fastest known time), it is a soft one.

The pizza place was 'Pie in the Sky' if I remember correctly.

When is somebody going to do the winter Maine 4's fast? And what would their time be??

Sue

Stinkyfeet said:

Now THAT was a fun day! We did it without crew, so if you can talk someone into helping out, you can save time on the Ellen-Abe traverse. To say, if ours is the record (or fastest known time), it is a soft one.

The pizza place was 'Pie in the Sky' if I remember correctly.

When is somebody going to do the winter Maine 4's fast? And what would their time be??

Sue

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Someone I know may a bug up their ass if they read this...

My friend Jeff's and my summer route several years ago was:

Mansfield: LT from Rt. 108 to Chin (w/stop at the Adam's Apple) and then to Nose (we used the North half of the old Triangle Trail, but you could just as easily hike up from the TV station (and the GMC would probably prefer that you did it that way). Descent via old upper Nose Dive to Haselton to 108 to car.

Cabot cheese outlet (Waterbury) grazing session; sandwiches (Boar's Head) from the Richmond Corner Market.

Camel's Hump up and down via Burrows.

Dropped car at Jerusalem trailhead, drove to Battell trailhead. Battell Trail to Mt. Abe, LT to Ellen, and then to the Jerusalem Trail. Jerusalem Trail to car.

Picked up car at Battell trailhead, drove to Killington ski area, hiked up underneath Gondola to the summit.

Stinkyfeet said:

When is somebody going to do the winter Maine 4's fast? And what would their time be??

Sue

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You know this guy is wired backwards because he is a Yankee fan living in Boston but here he is again.

That isn't winter though and here is the full thread.

It will be hard to contact him for awhile since he is probably in denial about something to do with a left-handed guy named Adrian?

As far as Scissor fighting goes, I believe DangerGirl aka Special K is an expert?

That isn't winter though...

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And not being able to drive in to the Marston trailhead really screws up the timing.

Stinkyfeet said:

When is somebody going to do the winter Maine 4's fast? And what would their time be??

Click to expand...

I fully expected you folks to do it the same year as NH & VT

The new Baxter rules should make it much easier to do legally, although the fastest time may depend on how far the roads are plowed or a lucky year such as when Richard Clark drove his truck in all the way in late December

RoySwkr said:

I fully expected you folks to do it the same year as NH & VT & NY
The new Baxter rules should make it much easier to do legally, although the fastest time may depend on how far the roads are plowed or a lucky year such as when Richard Clark drove his truck in all the way in late December

Click to expand...

Fixed it for you Roy.

Oh very interesting!

I'm not about to attempt this feat in a day, but I do have a few questions about Winter VT 4K's:

Mansfield - Is the LT at Smuggler's Notch the best way to go?

Ellen/Abraham - Frodo describes going up from Sugarbush to Ellen, then traversing over to Abe, and back. Is this because the Ap Gap and the Lincoln Gap are closed in the Winter? Or do people just love butt sliding in the Winter down ski slopes? What about access from the Jerusalem area?

Killington - Go up the Ski slopes?

Camel's Hump - Is the Burrough's Trail the best approach?

A general question about Ski Areas, are they open (i.e. free) to hikers, or do people just go REALLY early or REALLY late and hope for the best?

Mansfield - Is the LT at Smuggler's Notch the best way to go?

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All things being equal it's probably the easiest, with a few caveats:
* The last .3 to the Chin can be really icy, and they're exposed (comparable to Saddleback or Gothics); you might be better off taking the Profanity Trail (if you can find it) or generally following the snow-filled gully to climber's left of the chin;
* Avoid the LT on powder days, as the woods are full of heedless & generally out-of-control out-of-bounds snowboarders; it can be quite dangerous
* If you're not in it for time, a really nice winter route is the Laura Cowles trail from the Underhill side. If conditions above treeline are tolerably pleasant, take Sunset Ridge back down.

Ellen/Abraham - Frodo describes going up from Sugarbush to Ellen, then traversing over to Abe, and back. Is this because the Ap Gap and the Lincoln Gap are closed in the Winter? Or do people just love butt sliding in the Winter down ski slopes? What about access from the Jerusalem area?

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Both the Battell and Jerusalem trailheads are open in winter. Lincoln Gap is closed, but Ap Gap is open. Using the ski slopes just makes the trip shorter. Sugarbush allows uphill travel, but you have to check in with them about what trails they want you on. They've historically been pretty grumpy about this, but they've lightened up in the wake of growing public annoyance at their attempts to restrict access to the public lands on which they operate for profit.

Killington - Go up the Ski slopes?

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Probably the best bet, inasmuch as skiers use the LT & Cooper Lodge spurs anyway and they're narrower; using an open groomed cruiser & staying to the edge gives you a fighting chance at avoiding a collision.

Camel's Hump - Is the Burrough's Trail the best approach?

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Burrows is nice & most direct. If you aren't in it for speed, though, the Monroe->Alpine->LT->Monroe is a wonderful loop.

A general question about Ski Areas, are they open (i.e. free) to hikers, or do people just go REALLY early or REALLY late and hope for the best?

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See above.

In general, backcountry skiing & boarding is exploding in popularity in these parts and especially on these peaks, and on all of these mountains you should be vigilant; steel-edged harm can come hurtling down on you from above with little warning. Not all BC snowsports enthusiasts are as careful as we'd like to hope.

mirabela said:

...

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I nominate this for best post of the year!

Seriously, thanks for taking the time to provide this extremely useful information!

Tom Rankin said:

I'm not about to attempt this feat in a day, but I do have a few questions about Winter VT 4K's:

Mansfield - Is the LT at Smuggler's Notch the best way to go?

Ellen/Abraham - Frodo describes going up from Sugarbush to Ellen, then traversing over to Abe, and back. Is this because the Ap Gap and the Lincoln Gap are closed in the Winter? Or do people just love butt sliding in the Winter down ski slopes? What about access from the Jerusalem area?

Killington - Go up the Ski slopes?

Camel's Hump - Is the Burrough's Trail the best approach?

A general question about Ski Areas, are they open (i.e. free) to hikers, or do people just go REALLY early or REALLY late and hope for the best?

Click to expand...

Here are my favorite routes for these peaks:

Mansfield - Sunset Ridge. Drive as far as you can towards Underhill State Park, and then head up. If you do the LT from the other side, you may have to contend with snowboarders who use the trail as a half-pipe. Can be really dangerous as the trail is narrow in places - you may not see them coming.

Ellen/Abraham - Jerusaleum Trail.

Camels Hump - I like the Monroe (Couching Lion) approach best. There's a winter parking lot on the left.

Killington - Bucklin Trail.

If Snowshooz (John J.) sees this thread, maybe he'll respond also. I think John holds the world's record on number of winter ascents for Camels Hump. I'm at around 25, but am pretty sure that's chump change in comparison to John.

I have to say that going up the Bucklin Trail to Killington is the best winter route. Killington is a very busy, very crowded ski area with a *lot* of trail junctions. There is no safe route for a snowshoe up the active side of the mountain. You'd be in the "Canyon" area and that's a fast-skiing and difficult terrain area. While you could take the green Great Northern trail, it's a long way around to avoid the expert terrain, and you'll still be making a lot of trail crossings as it zig-zags.

Bucklin is actually a nice trail, and once you hit the LT/AT you'll get directly on the summit spur and likely not see anyone until the top. From the top, it's a pedestrian route down to the summit lodge, open almost year-round, where you can get hot food or use the facilities.

Now, in the summer I would suggest after the lodge following Great Northern to High Traverse. You'll end up at the top of the North Ridge Triple, and there will see a path into the woods (with many "Don't go here, we don't want to rescue you!" warning signs) and that comes back out at Cooper Lodge on the LT/AT. A nicer route back if you've gone to the lodge. Very busy with skiers in the winter, though. There's also some type of walkway they've put in up there to connect the lodge (and Gondola) with the North Ridge Triple, allowing early season skiing on Rime & Reason. That could also be useful in summer.

Caveat the first: make sure from the parking lot that you go up Bucklin, not the old Carriage Road which is the unmarked route to Mendon.

Caveat the second: make sure you stay on Bucklin and don't get distracted by the blue plastic markers for the Catamount XC Ski Trail.

>Mansfield - Is the LT at Smuggler's Notch the best way to go?

Tricky climb near summit, bypass via Profanity Trail popular

Maybe better from Underhill if going to Nose also

>Killington - Go up the Ski slopes?

I used (then) Long Trail from Sherburne Pass to add Pico

Fastest route may be ski slopes on both but I dislike the atmosphere and try to avoid them, however did not get down Killington in 10 minutes like the guys who glissaded down lift line

>A general question about Ski Areas, are they open (i.e. free) to
>hikers, or do people just go REALLY early or REALLY late and hope for
>the best?

It is probably far more dangerous at night, sure days you can be hit by a skier but the night groomers are somewhat uncontrollable and don't expect to see people out

Tom Rankin said:

I'm not about to attempt this feat in a day, but I do have a few questions about Winter VT 4K's:

Mansfield - Is the LT at Smuggler's Notch the best way to go?

Ellen/Abraham - Frodo describes going up from Sugarbush to Ellen, then traversing over to Abe, and back. Is this because the Ap Gap and the Lincoln Gap are closed in the Winter? Or do people just love butt sliding in the Winter down ski slopes? What about access from the Jerusalem area?

Killington - Go up the Ski slopes?

Camel's Hump - Is the Burrough's Trail the best approach?

A general question about Ski Areas, are they open (i.e. free) to hikers, or do people just go REALLY early or REALLY late and hope for the best?

Click to expand...

Re: Mansfield --
I did Mansfield this weekend via the LT, and the top .3 was treacherous -- an icy chimney followed by a narrow ridge with sloughing snow. Not much fun. From the Lodge, the Profanity Trail is nearly impossible to follow up. I've lost the trail on Sunset Ridge before, because of severe drifting. So.... Mansfield is harder than one might think. The best/easiest is probably still the LT, but then go to the left (south) of the summit cliff bands and look for a snow-filled route through. In poor weather, not fun.

Re: Abraham/Ellen --
The Jerusalem and Battell Trails service Ellen and Abe respectively, year-round. Battell in particular is usually well traveled. However, for those of us on the east side, I've found that hiking up to Lincoln Gap isn't that bad -- about 45 minutes up the road to the summer trailhead. And, it offers a fun glisse down (ski, sled, whatever you like) at the end of the day right back to your car.

Relative to the dangers of ascending Mansfield by the LT, if you do it first, you'll be ascending well before the area is open. If you end on Killington, the area will probably be closed by the time you get there, so you should have no problem ascending via the ski trails (Cascade?). It will be easy to avoid the groomers.