climbing crampons; G14's, another G12 or somehing else ?

Got some Christmas burning a hole in my pocket and decided a shiny sharp new set of climbing crampons are in order. Spadout discount on g14's with bots makes them the same price as g12's elsewhere. I have g12's now. Are g14's and Rambos overkill ? Are there any Black Diamond or Petzl fans out there ? I should also probably consider rigids. Any input is appreciated.

IMO, anything in excess of 12 points for general alpine use is overkill.

I should mention these will probably be exclusively for vertical ice climbing. My older g12's, airtech lights and microspikes will be used for everything else.

I think I can tell whether I'm wearing my Rambos when I'm climbing NEI 4 and up. The overall stiffness means I don't worry about the crampon working loose, and the vertical monopoint works well on thin, brittle, and hard ice and in the little mixed I've done. But they ball up horribly if used for walking (I've just added some duct tape as a crude anti-bot device, haven't tried it yet) so I only use them for cragging. If you're not planning on doing much top-roped vertical ice/mixed, you could probably find a better use for the cash. 12-pointers will get you up anything if your technique is good.

Chip said:

I should also probably consider rigids. Any input is appreciated.

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I presume you have rigid boots. I have Chouinard rigids from the late 1970s but I doubt that any recommendations will help you now...


Background info for anyone who does not know:
rigid crampons with flexible boots will fatigue the metal.

Doug

nartreb said:

If you're not planning on doing much top-roped vertical ice/mixed, you could probably find a better use for the cash.

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Thanks. The only thing these will be used for is top-roped veritical ice/mixed, learning to lead said and gullies. I could get to the climb in other options. These are for use with koflach degres and maybe my son's "new" Lowa's.

There are a couple of good reviews and comparisons about climbing vertical ice with vertical points or horizontal points and I'll try to find them later, but in short, you can check out these forums that have discussed crampons extensively.

neice.com
cascadeclimbers.com
mountainproject.com

Although vertical points like Grivel G14s, BD Cyborgs, and Petzl M10s climb steep ice and mixed really well, all around horizontal 12 points like Grivel G12s and BD Sabertooths, climb great as well.

If I'm out just to climb steep ice without a long approach, I'll use my G14s. If I'm going out to climb Gothics NF or Trap Dyke, I'll use G12s or BD Sabertooths. I have not had any experience climbing mixed, but hopefully this winter. . .

Between the Grivel, BD, and Petzl crampons, they all climb pretty well, and it's a matter of personal preference. In my opinion, I would just buy whatever you can find cheapest, but I do really like the Grivel G14s and G12s.

Check out coldthistle.blogspot.com

Dane has several posts about crampons that's worth reading, and it seems that he has the resources to test out multiple models as well as boots, and he gives pretty in-depth reviews/critiques.

nartreb said:

12-pointers will get you up anything if your technique is good.

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"Mountaineering" crampons will get you up anything if you're good, too.

I have the Petzl M10's.. I'll give 'em vote, though if you are looking for cheaper options they might not be your first choice since they are on the more expensive end, but I love them. I use them for both 'alpine' climbs and roadside gymnastics.

I used to have the G-14s and think they are a good 'pon as well.. If I was looking to buy either the 12 and 14 for climbing, I'd go with the 14.

leaf said:

I have the Petzl M10's.. I'll give 'em vote.

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Thanks. I've been looking at those...you go mono- or dual-point, asymmetric or symmetric ? I like that they can be reconfigured and am not worried about cost as I'll probably never wear this set out. (vs the old air techs and newer g12's).

Ole symmetric dual, but I'm gonna try out mono this Sunday at Frankenstein.. see if I like it. Yeah, I love the option of being able to switch it up.. although a very good climber once said to me, you got the option of two points, might as well use 'em both. The front points are f*ing monsterous as hell on the M10's.. it's like..ROAR.. baby. Good stuff.

I put a big vote in for the sabreteeth crampons. They are a great crampon for the all around climbing where you're not sure what you will find. Good on gully, vertical, semi vertical. Even light mixed climbing with them is possible.

Also have the Black diamond Cyborgs. I just picked them up last year and so far they are pretty impressive. Vertical and slightly past vertical are where they excel.

You may or not remember that I'm a big Grivel fan (with a couple pairs of their 'poons and a set of ice toolz), so view my opinion accordingly.

I'd go for the G14's, esp. if you can get a good deal on 'em and they come with antibotts. For steeper technical stuff, you'll appreciate the vertical frontpoints -- which are replaceable, BTW, unlike on the G12's. (I'm not following the logic of buying a second pair of G12's for technical ice, but that might just be me...)

By way of disclaimer, I've no personal experience with BD crampons, though there are a lot of ice climber types that swear by them. I do have a set of Petzl Irvis 'poons that I used for GM for a couple seasons before getting my G12's. They were fine, though I think the Grivels are a little better engineered.

I've been happy with my Petzl M10's for vertical ice climbing. If I am climbing a gully I may opt for my Grivel G12's if there aren't long steep pitches of ice. G10's are for hiking.

I nice pair of sharpened steel vertical points are definitively nice to have on bulletproof NE ice.
If you have the extra cash, you find you ice crag more often, and it will make your climbing a little more enjoyable then I'd go for them. Sure, there are diff between the G14 and M10s but you can't go wrong with either. Both can be setup as dual or monos (personal preference to duals. I think hard mixed benefits from monos).

G12's are what I use and recommend. The G12 has been on virtually every route/mountain in the world.