Catskill 35 Most Prominent Peaks

Hello,

Any Catskill experts out there? I made the post below on the Catskill 3500 forum and figured it couldn't hurt to post it here as well. Any input would be appreciated.

Rick
*******************************************************

Hi everyone,

Just got back home to Virginia on Sunday from a great Christmas week in New
York, with a fair amount of hiking in the Catskills, Taconics, and Gunks. This
was the first time in the last six Decembers I've been there that there was
little or no snow in the valleys. Bummer. Looks like I just missed some good
snowshoeing. But it was a great time anyway and the mountains were beautiful as always. Hopefully I will pass the halfway point on my 3500 list progress on my next visit as I am now up to 16 completed.

Anyway, I thought it would be neat to create a custom list of the 35 most
prominent peaks in the Catskills, the "Catskill 35 Finest", as a complimentary
list to the Catskill 3500 list. I have done this on listsofjohn.com but
the list remains private until I complete it. I will include links below but I'm
not sure how to include live links on this forum, so you may have to copy and
paste the urls.

I am hoping to get some expert help from the members of this forum to make this list accurate. I am not completely certain as to the physical boundaries of the range but I believe that it covers parts of Greene, Ulster, Scoharie, Delaware, and Sullivan counties. I am not sure if part of Otsego county is in the Catskills or not but I have assumed that it is unless I learn otherwise.

The list I have created currently has 39 peaks on it and I need to remove four
of them, and possibly more, which would then require finding the next most
prominent peaks to replace them. Hopefully, some of you with the appropriate
knowledge can review the list and map and help me solidify it. There are five
peaks on the list that I am unsure as to whether or not they are actually
considered part of the Catskills. These are East Hill (2191', Scoharie County),
Peak 2350 (2350', Delaware County), Pine Mountain (2350', Otsego County), Cairo Round Top (1436', Greene County), and Cornish Hill (2230', Otsego County). If these peaks are indeed all Catskillian, then I will simply remove the four peaks with the least prominence from the list and be finished. Those peaks would be Mount Hayden (2930', Greene County), Cornish Hill (2230', Otsego County), Bald Mountain (2730', Scoharie County), and High Knob (2670', Scoharie County). Or it may be a matter of removing a couple peaks from both categories.

I am fully aware that some of the peaks on this list are on private property and require permission to climb. That being said, some of them may not currently be accessible at all, thereby making the list incompleteable at the present time. Of course, situations do change over time. Nevertheless, I would like to remain completely objective in the formation of this list. If a peak exists and it qualifies, then it is what it is, regardless of access issues. If we cannot climb it today, it is still one of the most prominent peaks in the range, and perhaps we can climb it 5 or 10 years from now. Or maybe not...

Any input or suggestions would be most welcome. Here are the links to the
various pages for the list:

listsofjohn.com/PeakStats/Content/customlists.php?lid=210

listsofjohn.com/PeakStats/Content/clist.php?lid=210

listsofjohn.com/PeakStats/Content/maplist.php?lid=210

listsofjohn.com/PeakStats/Content/customlists.php?lid=210&note=y

Thanks,
Rick

Rick, as I said elsewhere, I think you should just pick a list. Let others nitpick if they want to. Just pick a reasonable criteria and go for it.

I'm looking forward to seeing the list.

Very well Tom. After I get home I shall pull out some maps and books and decide for myself where the outer edges of the Catskills lie. I was unable to do that at work this morning when I made the list.

BTW, you can indeed see the list as it now appears by going to the links at the bottom of my original post. It just isn't yet visible on the Custom Lists page on LOJ. The links I gave should still get you there. Let me know what you think if you look at it. Also, you might be pleased to know that you lead the list among LOJ members with 20 of the 39 peaks currently on the list. Roy Schweiker (my apologies if I spelled this wrong) is second, with 15.

Rick

crshortt said:

Also, you might be pleased to know that you lead the list among LOJ members with 20 of the 39 peaks currently on the list.

Click to expand...

Wow, I'm beating Roy at something!

I went and updated my list and now I'm at 21!

Congratulations Tom!

O.K. I took Tom's advice and finished the Catskill 35 Finest list. After looking at several maps, books, and online sources I learned that the northern and western edges of the Catskills are quite vague and uncertain, but it would seem that by the time you reach the Delaware River or Interstate 88 you are no longer really in them. This eliminated Pine Mountain and Cornish Hill in Otsego County, as these two peaks were both just north of I-88. I then removed the two least prominent peaks remaining on the list, Bald Mountain and High Knob in Scoharie County to get the list of 35 peaks. The resulting list has Slide Mountain as Number 1 with 3,295' of prominence and Mount Hayden as Number 35 with 820' of prominence. Nineteen peaks have over 1,000' of prominence.

The list is now on listsofjohn.com/

For anyone not familiar with this great site, to find this list from the homepage above, click on "Custom Lists" on the left side of the page then scroll down to New York. You will then have the choices of seeing the list, a map, member progress, where you can also sort the list by other criteria, and notes regarding the list.

Nice bit of work. I did a quick look over the list. While I did not perform and exhaustive verification, the list appears reasonable in that it has the peaks I would have generally expected. Nice to see a couple little 1K's make the list (the South Hill near the Rondout Reservoir and Cairo Round Top).

I also see that you placed the Catskill 100 Highest list on the Lists of John website, with the prominence data added and the elevations interpolated. That is much appreciated as I had hoped to determine and add the prominence data eventually. Those who have already completed or are working on this list will notice that the order is slightly different based on the interpolated elevations, but otherwise it is the same 102 peaks as the other online copies of the list.

Thanks Mark. Glad you like it. Yeah, I've added quite a few lists to LOJ. Love that website. Are you a member?

I'm considering doing a "Northeast Classic Peaks" list next, obviously a very subjective list, generally based on Jared Gange's excellent "100 Classic Hikes of the Northeast". It will have to be entirely peaks of course, so there may be a couple hikes that don't get represented if they don't go to either named or ranked peaks, but it could still be pretty neat, if a bit awkward. There are 108 hikes listed between the two editions, but many more peaks involved, plus quite a few more suggested hikes that don't get a detailed description. I'll have to give it some more thought as to whether or not it would be useful, or at least fun.

Tom Rankin said:

Rick, as I said elsewhere, I think you should just pick a list. Let others nitpick if they want to. Just pick a reasonable criteria and go for it.

Click to expand...

I think it is reasonable for an out-of-stater to ask for locally-accepted boundaries of the Catskills, certainly I wouldn't guess about some stragglers.

Tom Rankin said:

Wow, I'm beating Roy at something!

Click to expand...

I'm just lucky that very few from the NE have discovered this site yet or I would be leading 0 states instead of 5

You need to get him to add VnB (or do it yourself)

What is VnB?

Oh. Views and Brews. Neat! I don't drink but my girlfriend would absolutely love this. She really enjoys good beer. And hiking. Finally a list she might be enthusiastic about!

I don't know how much of this I can peruse on my SLOW computer at work, but it looks like many of the hikes are not to peaks, so I don't know how well that would work for a LOJ list. A great idea though. Any ideas as to how it could be done?

crshortt said:

Oh. Views and Brews. Neat! I don't drink but my girlfriend would absolutely love this. She really enjoys good beer. And hiking. Finally a list she might be enthusiastic about!

I don't know how much of this I can peruse on my SLOW computer at work, but it looks like many of the hikes are not to peaks, so I don't know how well that would work for a LOJ list. A great idea though. Any ideas as to how it could be done?

Click to expand...

There are not a whole lot of mountains near NYC, so we have to get creative.

I'm happy with my list.

Do you want me to create an account for you and your GF?

It's a great list! And a great idea.

Though I may possibly do an Adirondack trip with a couple buddies this coming Spring, it will probably be next Christmas before Leanne and I get back up that way together. Possibly earlier, because she would like to visit family more than once a year, but not much reason to sign us (or her, actually) up just yet though. I'll definitely show her the list though!

Rick

crshortt said:

Thanks Mark. Glad you like it. Yeah, I've added quite a few lists to LOJ. Love that website. Are you a member?

Click to expand...

No, I am not a member of the LoJ site. I am a fan of the LoJ and Peakbagger sites because of their many lists. I now prefer to hike a la carte from the lists rather than endeavoring to complete any entire list. So I am not really interested in tracking my hikes online.

I noticed the CHH list on LoJ while perusing the "Custom Lists" per your instructions. I also noticed that you had added many other lists. Are you using some topo software package to assist in generating all those lists and prominence info so fast? It took me a long time to develop the Catskill Hundred and 200 Highest lists. My method was to exhaustively pore over the paper and online maps by eyesight. It would seem that a software assist might be possible. Although I don't currently own any of the software map packages to ascertain whether it is currently doable.

That's why I love LOJ. John Kirk has already done all the work, I believe probably using some software like WinProm perhaps. He has already calculated the elevation, prominence, isolation, saddles, essentially everything for every single peak in his database. It is really quite amazing!

As for my custom lists, I either simply add the peaks from lists that are already published or I pore through his data, like I did for the Catskill 35 Finest, simply looking at the lists and maps for all the counties that the Catskills lie in.

The things you can do, learn, and track on that website are definitely wonderful. And he keeps adding new features and new states, intending to list all 50 states eventually. Kentucky is next.

Mark Schaefer said:

I now prefer to hike a la carte from the lists rather than endeavoring to complete any entire list. So I am not really interested in tracking my hikes online.

Click to expand...

I first became interested in LoJ before any of the NE was listed, to help sort out my Colo peaks which I finally accomplished. I chose it for online tracking as its lists are the most accurate and complete, at least for states that it has It does list a few "peaks" that I don't consider as such and leaves out most unnamed summits with only 200' cols, although I did get John to add W Bond, S Hancock, PatN, etc. from common lists.

I am working on some prominence lists easily gotten from the site, and when CRS adds a random list I see right away what I'm missing

Likewise, John has been nice enough to add several peaks for me as well that were unnamed and had less than 300' prominence. It seems he generally will if it has an unofficial name in print somewhere or is on a long established list. He added Southwest Hunter for me as well as 5 or 6 peaks on the Catskill Highest 100 list. More recently he added South Brace in the Taconics, and Millbrook Mountain and Gertrudes Nose in the Gunks. He will not add 0 prominence features though - unless they are jurisdictional highpoints like the Connecticut State Highpoint or the Columbia County, NY highpoint.

He also added several unnamed Southern Fivers between 200-299' prominence for my buddy Peter Barr.

So with time, it will be even more exhaustive and thorough than it already is!

Thanks for the reminder on the LOJ site. Hadn't been there for quite a while and was playing around doing a little updating the other day. Lots of fun.

You have a very nice New York list of peaks on there! Looks like several imminent list completions!

Rick