conditioning for Rainier

AlexTal said:

If you've never been on a guided trip, you'll be going a lot slower than you're used to. Sometimes it seems too slow, but that's what you have to do on big peaks!

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^^^This iz korrekt.

This surprised me as well. One of the comments I made on the video shot at Camp 1 was that I didn't realize "glacier travel" meant "glacial pace"! (har-har).

Alex, I'd be interested to hear more about your CrossFit experiences and how they relate to mountaineering. CrossFit comes up fairly often, usually with spirited exhanges between its adherents and detractors, on some other climbing forums I frequent (SP and CC) and I'm debating whether to try to incorporate it into my training for the return to Rainier this summer.

J.Dub said:

^^^This iz korrekt.

This surprised me as well. One of the comments I made on the video shot at Camp 1 was that I didn't realize "glacier travel" meant "glacial pace"! (har-har).

Alex, I'd be interested to hear more about your CrossFit experiences and how they relate to mountaineering. CrossFit comes up fairly often, usually with spirited exhanges between its adherents and detractors, on some other climbing forums I frequent (SP and CC) and I'm debating whether to try to incorporate it into my training for the return to Rainier this summer.

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Crossfit seems to bring up a lot of debate, so I'll keep this relatively short. You can feel free to PM me for more info, but really, the best thing I can suggest is to try a class. Most crossfit places offer a trial class so you can see if you even like it.

My experience has been that I just simply enjoy it. It's incredibly challenging and I think the biggest value for me is the emphasis on doing things that you are uncomfortable with so you become comfortable with them. It's a total body workout that's constantly varied, you essentially never know what to expect. I have been doing it for about 2 months now, so I am by no means an expert.

What I'm noticing already is I feel stronger than I did before. When I was hitting the treadmill and stairclimber, I got really good at just those two activities. I got really comfortable with them and it didn't take long before I noticed I wasn't getting better at either, but was just maintaining a good level at both. Now I'm working in good high intensity weight lifting and cardio that has resulted in an increase in my physical and mental strength, endurance, and flexibility.

But what if you’re a geezer and can’t handle all this high octane training but still want to schlep your way to the top of some of these bumps?

Craig said:

But what if you’re a geezer and can’t handle all this high octane training but still want to schlep your way to the top of some of these bumps?

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Crossfit is scalable to any fitness level or age!

But really, like I said before, this is something that I'm trying and I'm noticing good results. Other people have used many other tried and true methods of conditioning for mountaineering with very good success. I haven't put crossfit to the test against any peaks yet, so maybe it'll be a big failure for me (I just don't think so and I really hope not). Find something you enjoy and go with it. You don't have to be some sort of superhuman athlete to get up a lot of mountains or to have fun on them.

Rainier Prep

Made two attemps on Rainier. One with RMI and a successful one with IMG. IMG seemed to put an emphasis on getting everyone to the top which impressed me in a way that RMI didn't. One person in our group had a tough time with altitude so the guides got permission to give him diamox and allowed him extra time to rest. He made it. Two people turned back later on although the head guide said that it had been their decision and they (the guides) would have done everything they could to help them. Two of the guides had summited Everest and one of the bonuses of these kinds of climbs is listening to their stories. We trained by climbing Mt. Adams and Washington and backpacking for a couple of days on other Mountains. Also filled my backpack with about 50 lbs. of kitty litter and walked to work. Got a few comments on that one.

AlexTal said:

...you'll be going a lot slower than you're used to. Sometimes it seems too slow, but that's what you have to do on big peaks!

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Yes, absolutely agree with this. We went unguided, so I can't tell you exactly how it will go, but for us both days were very long and SLOW. That's the formula for success on these bigger peaks (and NOT the sprint-stop-sprint-stop cycle). We took a 5 minute rest every hour. We had to set our watches because we never felt tired and the breaks came well before we were expecting them. But really focusing on hydrating and eating - and going SLOW - was key. I think you don't need a particularly high tech fitness routine, as long as you're consistenly getting after it. But maybe once a month, if you can get out for some super long slog, like a 12 hr day with a pack kind of hike (NOT fast paced), that will prepare you best, both mentally and physically.

Diamox (Acetazolomide)

A lot of references for use of Diamox (Acetazolomide) in this thread, but I was surprised to learn that mountain guides on Rainier dispense it prophylactically en route on summit day, as everything that I have heard or read from high-altitude physiologists over the years is that one must begin taking the drug a couple of days before one reaches an altitude at which one really needs it.

I tried to use Diamox on Aconcagua, but found the tingling in the finger tips, toes, and cheeks a problem as it was masking sensations that I would associate with frostbite. So, I stopped taking at the advice of the basecamp doctor at Plaza de Mulas, took his advice to drink 5+ liters of water per day instead, and suffered just a mild head ache on the summit at 22,841 ft.

I think that the advice above on this thread to go slow (may be difficult if you are in a guided party that wants to go fast to summit early and avoid the slush on the way down), drink lots of water, and be in reasonable shape are more important than Diamox. As I noted earlier in this thread, being able to acclimatize a few days at altitude before attempting Rainier sure helps, but of course not always possible.

Here are a couple of quotes from a British website, but Wikipedia also has some nicely researched pages on Diamox:

“….seems to works [sic] by increasing the amount of alkali (bicarbonate) excreted in the urine, making the blood more acidic. Acidifying the blood drives the ventilation, which is the cornerstone of acclimatisation. For prevention, 125 to 250mg twice daily starting one or two days before and continuing for three days once the highest altitude is reached, is effective. Blood concentrations of acetazolamide peak between one to four hours after administration of the tablets.”

http://www.traveldoctor.co.uk/altitude.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetazolamide

Interesting that the guides dispense diamox. I wonder if the hikers sign a waiver for this. I would worry about somoene having an allergic reaction to the medication. Anaphylactic shock up high could be difficult to deal with

Dr. Dasypodidae said:

A lot of references for use of Diamox (Acetazolomide) in this thread, but I was surprised to learn that mountain guides on Rainier dispense it prophylactically en route on summit day, as everything that I have heard or read from high-altitude physiologists over the years is that one must begin taking the drug a couple of days before one reaches an altitude at which one really needs it.

I tried to use Diamox on Aconcagua, but found the tingling in the finger tips, toes, and cheeks a problem as it was masking sensations that I would associate with frostbite. So, I stopped taking at the advice of the basecamp doctor at Plaza de Mulas, took his advice to drink 5+ liters of water per day instead, and suffered just a mild head ache on the summit at 22,841 ft.

I think that the advice above on this thread to go slow (may be difficult if you are in a guided party that wants to go fast to summit early and avoid the slush on the way down), drink lots of water, and be in reasonable shape are more important than Diamox. As I noted earlier in this thread, being able to acclimatize a few days at altitude before attempting Rainier sure helps, but of course not always possible.

Here are a couple of quotes from a British website, but Wikipedia also has some nicely researched pages on Diamox:

“….seems to works [sic] by increasing the amount of alkali (bicarbonate) excreted in the urine, making the blood more acidic. Acidifying the blood drives the ventilation, which is the cornerstone of acclimatisation. For prevention, 125 to 250mg twice daily starting one or two days before and continuing for three days once the highest altitude is reached, is effective. Blood concentrations of acetazolamide peak between one to four hours after administration of the tablets.”

http://www.traveldoctor.co.uk/altitude.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetazolamide

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Thom - The side effects you experienced are not uncommon when taking a higher than needed dosage. The recommended dosage is below:

If it is to be used prophylactically, 125 mg twice a day starting 24 hours before ascent, and discontinuing after the second or third night at the maximum altitude (or with descent if that occurs earlier). Sustained release acetazolamide, 500 mg, is also available and may be taken once per day instead of the shorter acting form (I have found side effects to be higher with this form).

See this link for more info on Diamox and AMS.

When Diamox was first discovered to have some use in preventing AMS, people waited until early symptoms occurred. Later, it was discovered to have better results if people started 24 hours before ascent. I have seen it work for a companion who took it after symptoms began.

The drug has been available for a rather long time. I believe it was used initially to treat high blood pressure, and fortunately adverse reactions to it are few.

Dr. Dasypodidae said:

A lot of references for use of Diamox (Acetazolomide) in this thread, but I was surprised to learn that mountain guides on Rainier dispense it prophylactically en route on summit day...

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I can tell you that the subject of Diamox was never brought up by our IMG guides. I don't believe Brian Wood's experience with IMG is common.

Edit: Based on the following, I'd bet he had the prescription ahead of time;

IMG's FAQs said:

Some medications have been shown to help prevent altitude illness. IMG does not recommend any specific medications. People tend to do fine with the moderate altitude of Mt. Rainier without any medications, especially if they are on one of our longer (3, 4, 5, and 6 day) programs. If considering medications for altitude illness, you should consult with your physician. Diamox (acetazolamide) can help prevent altitude illness and many climbers use it on high altitude expeditions around the world. It is usually not necessary on Mt. Rainier and is reserved for more extreme altitudes such as those found in the Himalayas and in South America. You need a prescription from a doctor to obtain Diamox so a consultation with an MD is necessary, and that is a good time to ask questions regarding its benefits and drawbacks, as there are several side effects that can affect one's climb. If you do decide to take Diamox, we suggest starting with a small dose (125mg morning and evening) to minimize unpleasant symptoms (tingling, itching, excessive urination).

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http://www.mountainguides.com/rainier-faq.shtml#33

Rainier prep

Don't want to leave the impression that IMG guides distribute drugs. Don't know all the circumstances but we arrived at Muir about a day and a half before the summit attempt. One person was not feeling well and went right into rest and may have had a prescription. Just wanted to make the point that IMG did a great job of getting us up the mountain. This person was highly motivated and had trained very hard and the guides were working with him but I don't know for sure all that went on.

Brian Wood said:

Just wanted to make the point that IMG did a great job of getting us up the mountain...

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Us also. One client nearly completely bonked near the top - stumbling, tripping, dropping to his knees at every delay - the guides basically mushed him to the rim, then another client's knees gave out on the way down and so the guides basically sledded him down from Muir to Paradise...in a white out and also responsible for the rest of us and a couple other "civilians" that the ranger asked to be attached to our group at Muir.

Wow nice picture!

Caffine! Not!

One of the things I did before going to Rainier was to cut all caffine out of my diet for about 2 weeks before the climb. If you are on the mountain for a few days and don't get your normal caffine fix you can get headaches from the caffine withdrawal. This headache could be confused with AMS. I got my withdrawal headache out of the way before I got on the mountain and didn't have any altitude problems while there.
I also climbed to 8000 feet on the Muir Snowfield the day before we went to Muir Hut for a bit more acclimation.
As mentioned before, a good nights sleep before starting your climb is also helpful.
Good Luck!

Brian Wood said:

Wow nice picture!

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+1

Chip, can you send that pic to me at my home e-mail? (I'll print it out and hang it up in front of the treadmill, as training inspiration for our return trip this summer.)

Woody48 said:

If you are on the mountain for a few days and don't get your normal caffine fix you can get headaches from the caffine withdrawal.

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Why would you need to go without caffeine whilst climbing, when they make this?

Another way to get your caffeine without alot of weight is with chocolate-covered coffee beans. They taste great, too.

J.Dub said:

+1

Chip, can you send that pic to me at my home e-mail? (I'll print it out and hang it up in front of the treadmill, as training inspiration for our return trip this summer.)

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Just so we're clear: That's not my pic. My good wife emailed it to me yesterday, just to help keep my mind wandering at work . You can right click on it and copy the properties. It was an MSNBC slideshow, I think.

Dub: I've got a nicer one framed taken from the south side with an awesome lenticular, if you want to borrow it for training. Similar to this;

beautiful pics!

lovely pictures .

Thank you for your advice all... I just talked to RMI and moved to the 6 day expedition skills seminar in aug over the Emmons Glacier. This will be harder on the back and legs I suppose

I need caffine no matter what or where I am, The easiest solution for me is the folgers coffee bags, just boil water and add to cup, i use a large mug and 2 bags, i carry powdered milk and sugar mixed in a small plastic bottle.

I didn't take any diamox on Rainier but took 125 mg at dinner every night on Denali above 14k. Diamox will help prevent apnea while sleeping, so you sleep better. I slept wonderfully with some minor headaches at 17 camp and above.

I say unless you start having a real problem, don't take it on Rainier. If you do have problems, I suggest going down. I really think the secret is to not worry about it. Don't think every headache is going to kill you. Feel comfortable talking about any issues with the guides. They hear it all the time and are good at putting it in perspective. Stressing out about AMS makes it more likely to happen.

Relax. Train hard. You will have an amazing time.

Summit or no summit, a trip up a big peak will be an amazing life experience.