Back Country Skiing gear

Okay, I'm finally ready to purchase some back country skis and boots...looking for recommendations.

I'm not sure I'd use them on ski slopes so much...but I use to love hiking with them many years ago, not sure how well I'll do today, but can't wait to try them out again.

So, I'm looking for high quality and of course low cost, right?

Oh yea, and recommend something that will make coming down the mountains easy for me...and some good places to buy them.

I'm looking forward to all suggestions.

Thanks.

Hey Donna, I got my Karhu Pavos from Campmor's retail store for like $80 last March but they don't do skis over the internet and when I did, they didn't have any bindings or any boots that would fit me (March is end of season kind of sale territory) so I bought bindings from

http://www.backcountrystore.com/

who were very helpful. Obviously, you are better off being able to try on boots, but I couldn't resist the sale and got lucky with the boots I got. I did go with the NNN-BC bindings, in hindsight, I'd like to try the 75mm 3 pin system but then I'm fairly new to XC skiing. My NNN BC (manual) is fine for me, being a beginner but I think the 3 pin system is better for more serious backcountry stuff and I'm always fighting snow catching in the bindings.

I have Alpina BC 1550 boots which are a basic touring ski boot that works fine. I use BD Traverse flicklock ski poles which are heavy but inexpensive.

Now is the time to find ski swaps and stuff, so check around, there was one in the catskills a few weeks ago so I'm sure they're up in Mass now. A good place to find equipment, perhaps used ones. I'm sure the majority would be downhill stuff but hey, you might catch a good deal.

Jay

Hi Donna,

Check out the November issue of Backcountry Magazine for a disussion of light backcountry touring gear. I have been delighted with my Fisher S-Bound Rebound skis and find them to be the most versatile skis I have ever used. They have 29mm sidecut, similar to the sidecut of a downhill oriented tele ski. Sidecut is combined with a full double camber and light weight to make a ski which tours as well as any waxless ski and will afford great downhill control when matched with 3-pin cable bindings and a boot with at least some stiffness in the sole. Alpina and Atomic both have similar skis which merit consideration as well. I used to have Karu Catamount, now replaced by the Dorado, Pyxis and a few other models. The sub $100 price posted earlier is a good deal for these skis which are better than the first generation of bc skis such as the XCD, but these new bc skis are so well designed for bc conditions it is hard to recommend something else. Note that these new skis have refuted the long held notion that "you can't turn a double camber ski". Poppycock. Sidecut trumps camber--you can have a ski that tours and turns equally well. However, these skis are too wide to fit into a groomed track.
Hope this helps.

The good news is you have a ton of choices.
The bad news is you have a ton of choices.

Basically, you'll need to determine what your balance of uphill and downhill skiing will be. Lighter and thinner to glide more. Beefier and wider to turn and descend.

Try Couloir's website for a look at BC gear:
http://earnyourturns.com/

There are a lot of choices out their. It also depends on what type of skiing you are looking to do. When i started out I used a classic style ski which was long and narrow. They worked great for in track skiing and rolling terrain off track. Then as I got better I moved up to an XT ski. This type of ski was wider and shorter than the classic and had no metal edges. It allowed me to do more off trail but aslo worked well for in the tracks. I never planned on doing anything steep so never found the need for those edges. Thats what my snowshoe where for. For the Classic and XT skies I used a basic SNS binding with a touring boot. They worked great for what I wanted but where not stiff enough for turning or steep backcountry skiing. Now that I am on my15+ year of XC skiing I bought the Karhu Pavos plus I got a great deal that I could not pass up. I found myself in the last few years doing more backcountry. My XT worked fine but that was only because I have been skiing for so long now. The Pavos are a little wider than my XT skies but they have a full Metal edge and a NNNBC binding with the BC boots. Have not tried them yet since I just got them but can not wait for the snow.

Many choices, most of them are good.

I'll follow Yardsale's recommendations and say to look at the Fischer S-bound series (Outbound, Rebound, or Outtabound) or the Karhu Pavos or ??? (I forget the second Karhu model). They are light, good for touring, and still turn.

For the backcountry, I think full metal edges are a must. If you are going to be far from the road, in a full range of conditions, I think metal edges offer control and safety that is needed. All the skis mentioned above have full metal edges.

For bindings, I'd go with 3-pin 75mm. There are some good things to be said about NNN-BC but they have less control, have a tendency to ice up at the worst possible time, and offer a much more limited selection of boots. The Rotefella 3-pins with removable cables are a great choice. You can climb or tour with just the pins and then put the cables on for downhill control, especially with a big pack.

I really like the lightest plastic boots (Scarpa T4, Garmont Excursion) as a single all purpose boot for touring and limited downhill. They are warm, light, and waterproof. On the otherhand, they are expensive. There are also some nice leather boots that will do fine at a lighter weight to your body and wallet, but at a cost of downhill rigidity.

I'd recommend renting or demoing to try out a few models before buying.

-dave-

Donna, all good advice. My pet prejudice is for plastic boots. I find them superior to leather in every way. I have Excursions, but the T4's look good too. Can't go wrong with any of the metal-edged skis - mine are Rebounds. I don't care for 3-pin bindings- too much trouble to get the pins in the boot holes - I always opt for cables. Compare weights, though. Some are much heavier than others. Now where's the snow and when do we leave?

Great suggestions!

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll be shopping around within the next couple of weeks. I already have X-country skis but need metal edge.

You all are awesome. I knew I could get what I need from VFTT!!!

arm said:

can you recommend some local places to rent and/or check out gear ?

i'm looking to upgrade my ski gear this Winter

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Doesn't All Outdoors rent ski gear? I may be wrong, but I thought they did.

EMS in N. Conway rented several versions of the Fisher S-Bound series bc ski last year.

Atomic Raniers

Is anyone familiar with these skis. They have them at STP for under $120 which seems like the best early season price I have found for any metal edged bc ski so far. Look good on the website but probably last years model so may not have the exact same bells and whistles.

The Atomic Raniers aren't a bad ski, but they haven't gotten the stellar reviews that the Karhu and Fischers have received. With 28mm of sidecut they should turn fairly well and $120 is a pretty good deal.

What size are you looking at (what is your weight/height) and what type of skiing are you planning to do?

-dave-

Donna,

As others have said, there's a dizzing amount of choices. All of them are a comprimise between an xc racer's efficient striding and a downhill skier's control. No one set-up is going to do all things well and the trade-offs and differences can very noticable, ranging from ecstacy to misery. What will be best for *YOU* may be very different for another skier with different goals, skills and tastes. The more you can determine the very center of what you want to do, the better and more directly applicable the advice can be.

The first and second questions are 1) where will you likely ski and 2) what kind of skier are you.

Here is my "quick-pick" general advice for beginning the conversation.
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/quick-picks.html

Note, this is more meant to sharpen the questions and not provide definitive answers. Just holler as more questions arise (and they will).

audrey said:

I don't care for 3-pin bindings- too much trouble to get the pins in the boot holes - I always opt for cables. Compare weights, though. Some are much heavier than others.

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More than weight, I think the big penalty with cable bindings is how much they impede your ability to stride. Even the most touring friendly cable bindings pretty much destroy striding ability imo.

To make it easier to get in and out of 3-pin bindings (and to add durability to the pin holes) install counter-sunk smile plates from Advance Base Camp.

More details here:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/smiley-plates.html

dave.m said:

More than weight, I think the big penalty with cable bindings is how much they impede your ability to stride. Even the most touring friendly cable bindings pretty much destroy striding ability imo.

To make it easier to get in and out of 3-pin bindings (and to add durability to the pin holes) install counter-sunk smile plates from Advance Base Camp.

More details here:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/smiley-plates.html

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I just installed Smiley Plates for the first time (after learning about them on your page). I put them on my brand new Excursions with a rotary tool I got from Harbor Freight. Not that bad a job, and they came out pretty well, if I say so myself.

I opted for Voile 3 pin bindings with the removable cables. The best of both worlds, so I understand. For my lift served tele skis, I mounted Targs G3's.

Question -- will my Garmont Excursions do OK on beginner/intermediate on-piste terrain for learning to tele, or am I going to have to invest in something heavier, like a Scarpa T2?

Mark

Mark_151 said:

Question -- will my Garmont Excursions do OK on beginner/intermediate on-piste terrain for learning to tele, or am I going to have to invest in something heavier, like a Scarpa T2?

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Would love to hear how the Smile Plates work for you. I think they're the cat's meow but then again, I have strange tastes.

The Excursion should do fine with the usual caveat that gear designed specifically for a specific job do a better job at that job. Boots like the T2 will be stiffer torsionally and will provide more support to the back so they will edge better and will make parallel turns better. Most people report that they learn to tele faster with heavier boots. Depending on your local shops, this is definitely a rent before you buy sort of thing.

I agree with dave.m (big surprise there) that the Excursions will do you fine for learning to tele on lift served terrain. They'll be excellent on greens and blues, but if you expect to ski moguls or steep blacks they'll start showing their shortcomings.

What kind of skis are you using? If the ski is too big, you may have a hard time driving them with the Excursions.

-dave- (the other dave.m)

David Metsky said:

I agree with dave.m (big surprise there) that the Excursions will do you fine for learning to tele on lift served terrain. They'll be excellent on greens and blues, but if you expect to ski moguls or steep blacks they'll start showing their shortcomings.

What kind of skis are you using? If the ski is too big, you may have a hard time driving them with the Excursions.

-dave- (the other dave.m)

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Hi Dave.

I'll be using them on Wachusett mostly, but I also have aspirations for Wildcat, Sunapee, and maybe Cannon this year. No plans for moguls yet!

I have Outtabound Crowns for backcountry work. They're mated to Voile 3 pin cables. My wish list for this season is Moosilauke, Cardigan, Prospect Mountain, and assorted other things out of Goodman's book. My biggest hopes for this season are Wildcat Valley and Tucker Brook.

The on-piste skis are an old pair of Rossignol Energy 9.9 Plus's , same length as the Outtabounds (179), and about 90 at the tip, 80 at the tail, with more sidecut. They're mounted with Targa G3's.

I have Outtabounds as well, but mine are waxable (I like to wax). I need to put some binders on them, probably the same ones you are using, plus I need to buy a pair of Excursions so I can stop bringing by Veloces (similar to the T2) into the backcountry.

Since I'm getting the exact same setup for backcountry, I think it's a very nice combination. You should be fine on your lift setup as well. If you find yourself getting more aggressive and wanting more boot, you'll also be wanting more ski. Start saving money now.

-dave-

David Metsky said:

I have Outtabounds as well, but mine are waxable (I like to wax). I need to put some binders on them, probably the same ones you are using, plus I need to buy a pair of Excursions so I can stop bringing by Veloces (similar to the T2) into the backcountry.

Since I'm getting the exact same setup for backcountry, I think it's a very nice combination. You should be fine on your lift setup as well. If you find yourself getting more aggressive and wanting more boot, you'll also be wanting more ski. Start saving money now.

-dave-

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I was afraid you'd say that I'm already finding this new avocation of mine, even when approached on the cheap, sucks money as bad as all the rest of the outdoor stuff I'm into. Fortunatly, that's what stock options are for