Fill in your divots!

Postholes are rarely an issue if you stick to hiking off trail, although those darn inconsiderate moose just refuse to wear their snowshoes Even if I do get a good snowshoe track going in, I sometimes find it ruined by hoof holes on the way out.

MadRiver said:

As long as we are whining, how *^%#$ hard is it to kick a little snow over your pee stain? Show some courtesy. ....

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But that doesn't make sense. I pee in the middle of the trail to mark my territory. What good is a mark if I have to cover it up.

It's an innate, thing you know.... not something learned.

Personally, I'll be glad when all that nasty snow with its ankle twisting postholes is gone so that I can get back to hiking those snowless sidewalk smooth White Mt. trails.

For dOG's sake, just do it for the kittens!

David Metsky said:

We get this thread every spring, like clockwork. The same issues are r

Postholing, unleashed dogs, carrying guns, and cell phones: Keeping VftT exciting since 1995.

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Don't forget IPods and patches, Dave!

David Metsky said:

..... cell phones: Keeping VftT exciting since 1995.

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Who hiked with a cell phone in 1995?

David Metsky said:

Postholing, unleashed dogs, carrying guns, and cell phones: Keeping VftT exciting since 1995.

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You forgot mooning the Cog.

David Metsky said:

Postholing, unleashed dogs, carrying guns, and cell phones: Keeping VftT exciting since 1995.

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Don't forget huts and toilet paper.

Chip said:

You know what the problem is ? Unless you want the "Rule" like the ADK's have (and that's no panacea), the only person this is affecting is "You" (the generic "You" here who is bothered). "They" are not going to abide by your requests. "They" are home drinking a beer. "You" need to decide if this is going to ruin your hike or not. A root or rock can snap your ankle just as fast as a post hole. Nothing's perfect, it's all part of the experience.

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I think this gets to the heart of the matter. There is no panacea, rule or no rule, somebody or some group's going to do something some group doesn't like. "I" can't control "you" only how I act and react to "you."

Personally, do I like postholes? No. But, I'll bareboot when I can and after about 5 holes, on come the shoes. Like others have commented - it's just easier to use them then, so I do.

When I get "frustrated" hiking which is seriously almost never, I try to put things in perspective and think how fortunate I am to be in the mountains at that moment with freedom, time, peace, health, and happiness when others are have lost their freedom, have no leisure time left, have lost jobs, or are hungry. I'm not trying to sound like a preachy d*nk by any means, but seriously.

Once in a blue moon, postholes have bothered me. But I've never felt they added near the amount of danger necessary to need legislation or rules. My god, what would Ed Abbey say? I feel the same about butt sliding. Yes, I notice it's a little smoother and icier when frozen than if packed out by shoes and requires more kicking in or traction. I'm usually just psyched the trail's broken out. I didn't come expecting an easy day. This is of course, my opinion. I realize not all share it, but I am happy we're still, for the time being, all allowed to have different ones.

To add some "humor" as well as hypocrisy, I was once chastised (not in NY) for barebooting a "cement sidewalk" of a trail by someone grouped with over 15 in a wilderness area.

And I never laughed so hard as the one time I actually mooned the cog. For that reason alone it was worth it.

David Metsky said:

We get this thread every spring, like clockwork. The same issues are raised each year, and the same trade offs are brought up. That's not to say it isn't useful or educational, but you're not going to ever get agreement or consensus on it.

Postholing, unleashed dogs, carrying guns, and cell phones: Keeping VftT exciting since 1995.

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You forgot the "I want to bring by never been hiking friends up 6H or Huntingtons...."

BTW, I don't like post holes either, just taking the other side of the discussion. Monorail or postholes. both dangerous, both possible slip & fall hazards & ankle or knee injures.

Postholes, if you fall you have a soft landing, biggest initial threat is some type of leg twist/sprain or break. With the softer lower winter boots even an ankle. In plastics, lowest part of the leg endangered is the bottom of the tib/fib. Injury itself not life threatening. immobile in -20 degree temps, very life threatening. Postholes encountered by hikers who should be more experienced & know the peril.

Monorail, can be several 100's of yard long, can be icy, problem is rocks are exposed next to the monorail. Initial slip & fall not life threatening, what you hit your hip, knee or head against could be life threatening. skulls, knees & arms don't fare well when hitting large rocks. Vast majority don't hit skulls. Hikers other than teh folks out all year to see this though are 3 season hikers, If they had a great season last year they may start a couple of weeks earlier, the snow may melt later this year. This group doesn't undestand the peril that well. Well prepared hikers would be okay on most May nights & SAR folks likely will not find any (very few) May storms were there is Monorail to be too harsh to venture out; mostly below treeline although scrub bewteen Ike & Pierce does develop some. More 3 season types may be ill prepared for a night out on a cold May night. (shouldn't be but we know better)

I really enjoyed reading this thread. I'm not fond of post holes either but I don't actually know of anyone in snowshoes ever getting hurt by one.

Oldmanwinter said:

...I'm not fond of post holes either but I don't actually know of anyone in snowshoes ever getting hurt by one.

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You said it, brother. And while we're at it, are there really people out there falling off monorails and smashing their body parts on large rocks?

Let's not confuse inconvenient with perilous.

I sense a grip of cabin fever here but FWIW I think the only people who should be allowed to posthole are unleashed dogs, whether they're on a cell phone or not.

I've been with people who did hit their hip slipping off the monorail & hitting a rock. Black & blue only a few days later.

(I was fishing for some Monthy Python humor there, "the perils are too perilous".)

Stan said:

I sense a grip of cabin fever here

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I'm certainly deeply afflicted with cabin fever...if I don't get out one of the next two weekends I'll need antibiotics...

almost a week and only 4 pages..........

Mike P. said:

the winter hikers who create the monorail by wearing their snowshoes prevent the snow from melting sooner so the majority of the people can use the trail without the hazard of the monorail.

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Damn straight! How's this for a monorail?

For the record, the snowshoe regulation in the Adirondacks applies only to the High Peaks Wilderness. The regulation therefore applies to 33 of the 46 High Peaks, meaning that 13 of them can be climbed legally in winter without snowshoes. This also means that the regulation also only applies to 7.4% of the public land in the Adirondack Park. Trail wise, a simple GIS query shows that the regulation applies only to 9.5% of trails in the Adirondacks.

Just putting it all in perspective. Those who feel that the High Peaks regulation in the Adirondacks "crimps their postholing style" are obviously quite mistaken- there are plenty of places for them to play without snowshoes!

DSettahr said:

Just putting it all in perspective. Those who feel that the High Peaks regulation in the Adirondacks "crimps their postholing style" are obviously quite mistaken- there are plenty of places for them to play without snowshoes!

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It's true, in those areas you won't have the ranger sending you back or ticketing you, but I would be willing to bet (and maybe even more so in the Adirondacks) that you will run into those who consider it their right to lecture you about wearing snowshoes.

A number of years ago we had a cold but low snow winter. I got to the Cannon trailhead and found it packed out like a sidewalk. I put my snowshoes back in the car and put on my crampons. They hardly left a trace. Ahead of me there was someone with MSRs and another person with Stableicers. I was almost to the lookout on the ridge when I met the fellow with the MSRs. I gave him a friendly greeting and without a 'hello' I got back a tirade about how I was destroying the trail and making postholes he would trip on etc. etc. etc. None of it was true. In fact the MSRs were tearing up the trail more than my crampons. When I saw where the conversation was going I simply said 'have a good day' and walked on. A bit later I met the guy with the Stableicers. Only he had his snowshoes on. I guess he had been intimidated into putting them on. On my way back I noticed that on the steep section he had replaced the snowshoes with the Stableicers again.

Quite frankly, the whole incident which wasn't at all necessary kind of spoiled the day.

monorail bridge, # 56

The other day I was cruising the trails near AMC Cardigan Lodge for standing dead spruce to harvest for waterbars this season. My route crossed five bridges that had monorails like this one. I recommend the experience highly as practice for sidehill gouging on snowshoes. Nothing like being fit and ready for the challenges of hiking...
Yesterday I was joined by a good sawyer and we now have seven spruce by the trail ready to be angled across the trail at suitable points. The trailwork never ends.
Creag nan drochaid

DSettahr said:

For the record, the snowshoe regulation in the Adirondacks applies only to the High Peaks Wilderness. The regulation therefore applies to 33 of the 46 High Peaks, meaning that 13 of them can be climbed legally in winter without snowshoes. This also means that the regulation also only applies to 7.4% of the public land in the Adirondack Park. Trail wise, a simple GIS query shows that the regulation applies only to 9.5% of trails in the Adirondacks.

Just putting it all in perspective. Those who feel that the High Peaks regulation in the Adirondacks "crimps their postholing style" are obviously quite mistaken- there are plenty of places for them to play without snowshoes!

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Maybe it's already been stated, but this rule was written because the ADK trails get a lot more skiers than the Whites, or at least that has been my impression so far.