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Thread: Fill in your divots!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Elizabeth's Avatar
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    Fill in your divots!

    I am glad that New England does not have the strict rules on wearing snowshoes in winter that exist in the Adirondacks. It is nice that we are given the discretion to wear on our feet what is appropriate for the conditions of the particular day and path, without a blanket provision for the season. This past weekend was a perfect example of that - warm and mushy on Saturday (snowshoes needed on most trails); cooler on Sunday (as long as you stuck to the "monorail" hardpack, snowshoes were not needed on many trails).

    However . . . this puts the responsibility on individual hikers to keep from wrecking the trails with postholes. If you fill in any postholes you make with snow and take time to tamp down the snow, you can actually improve the trail for the next person, rather than destroying the surface. If you are postholing so much that filling each hole becomes onerous, you should put on snowshoes. If you did not bring snowshoes, maybe you should think about turning around and going home, and coming back another day.

    Sorry for this rant. I just needed to vent on this issue.
    "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

  2. #2
    Senior Member Tom Rankin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    If you did not bring snowshoes, maybe you should think about turning around and going home, and coming back another day.

    Sorry for this rant. I just needed to vent on this issue.
    Vent away!

    As you may have noted, when the day warms up, snow shoes might not be needed in the morning, but in the afternoon. So the idea of turning around when you start post holing does not really work. Maybe this is one reason for the rule in NY?
    Tom Rankin
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  3. #3
    Senior Member dug's Avatar
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    Why stop there? I mean, I hate the thin trail that develops, especially with today's snowshoes. So, take the time to widen the trail, you can actually improve the trail for the next person, rather than destroying the surface. If you are spending so much time trying to widen the trail that it becomes onerous, you should put on bigger snowshoes. If you did not bring big snowshoes, maybe you should think about turning around and going home, and coming back another day.

  4. #4
    Senior Member teleskier's Avatar
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    This is why I'm quite content with the situation in the Adirondacks. The problem with leaving things up to people's discretion is that a lot of people have none. And the authorities do take into account the condition of the trails; when it's bullet-proof, wearing crampons will not bring a rebuke. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I do notice a difference in Mass and VT (my most frequent out-of-state destinations) vs. the Adirondacks.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Elizabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Rankin View Post
    Vent away!

    As you may have noted, when the day warms up, snow shoes might not be needed in the morning, but in the afternoon. So the idea of turning around when you start post holing does not really work. Maybe this is one reason for the rule in NY?
    You make a good point. I am often tempted to leave my snowshoes behind when there is a nice morning crust. I carry them anyhow, and remind myself that weight-bearing exercise helps to prevent osteoporosis.
    "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

  6. #6
    Senior Member Tim Seaver's Avatar
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    Funny Thing

    The most postholed trail I have ever been on was the main drag to Mount Marcy, ravaged by a party wearing snowshoes during a thaw. The trail would have been safer and easier to follow if they had NOT worn snowshoes - but instead of foot-sized holes that you could walk around, there was a giant series of closely spaced 18 inch deep holes constantly sucking you towards them.

    Good thing they followed "the law."

    You donít have to be a fantastic hero to do certain things ó to compete. You can be just an ordinary chap, sufficiently motivated. - Edmund Hillary

  7. #7
    Senior Member leaf's Avatar
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    ooohhh... so many things i can say.. sooo many things. instead i'll laugh.

    hahahahahhahaha.

    ok, i'm done here.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Becca M's Avatar
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    So far this year, it seems to me as though more people are wearing snowshoes and being more courteous about not creating postholes than years past...
    Yay for winter!!!!!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    And if you take the side of the summer hikers, who make up the majority of the hikers but not posters here, the winter hikers who create the monorail by wearing their snowshoes prevent the snow from melting sooner so the majority of the people can use the trail without the hazard of the monorail.

    The monorail is the last thing to melt, except for Tucks, the ice gulch & a few other places. if winter hikers stayed off the trails, they would melt sooner & be easier for the majority of the hikers to use.

    So if the summer throngs, (read if you wish, wimps who choose not to hike all year), can get by the last of the monorail, why does a few postholes bother people, especially people trying to tame the mountains in winter.

    'I survived my ascent of Mt. Washington, I came & kicked butt with all my gear but a few postholes ruined my trip'

    It's Spring, bring your shovels & remove the packed snow from the trails & help bring summer to the trails. If we all cleared a few feet, the C-Path to Pierce could be snow free in just a few weeks.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  10. #10
    Senior Member wardsgirl's Avatar
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    I like it! Especially that he says 'please' and 'thank you."
    AMC Adopt-A-Trail Program Region Leader Emeritus: Pemigewasset 1993-2005 Southern Presidentials 2005-2017
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  11. #11
    Member BF's Avatar
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    That sign is brilliant! Only it looked more like this...

  12. #12
    Senior Member MichaelJ's Avatar
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    Time for the annual avatar change.
    May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

  13. #13
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    Snowshoes are easier

    After we have all vented about the damn' ignorant selfish antisocial people who are so energetically stupid as to posthole a well-trod trail into a hazard where one false step and you'll break your leg...
    Let us consider what we can do to encourage people to wear snowshoes. We. Ourselves, who get out all winter and likely visit more trailheads than any official.
    A sticker, perhaps with a sketch that shows snowshoers walking in comfort and postholers struggling? Perhaps in cooperation with stores that sell snowshoes, or a place that rents them? I mean, when you can get adequate shoes for most conditions from Wal-mart there is little economic excuse for not wearing them. Perhaps an educational card to be handed out to postholers with the same info on it.
    Whatever we give or post, it has to appeal to two aspects of their emotions:
    1) self-interest, comfort, convenience. Snowshoeing is much easier than not.
    2) shame at leaving the trail unhikable for others. When snowshoes are inexpensive and easier, what's the excuse for not using them?
    Creag nan drochaid

  14. #14
    Senior Member Neil's Avatar
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    Before becoming a post-hole is it a pre-hole?

    What kind of hole is a sitz-mark?

    Post-holier than thou.

  15. #15
    Senior Member spider solo's Avatar
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    It makes me smile.
    I remember a bunch of years ago someone asking if they should fill in the post holes.
    It seemed so unique that people would worry about such things.

    It just seems strange to live somewhere that there are actually laws about making holes in snow.

    It will never cease to amaze me.


    of course perhaps now we can know... "how many holes it takes to fill Albert Hall..."
    "you've got to stand for something
    or...you'll fall for anything"

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