Stretching routines

I see threads on conditioning and recovery and references to stretching, but I haven't found discussions about what stretches and what stretching routines people find useful.

I've found that yoga (I haven't settled on a specific routine) for a couple days before a big hike is helpful and that it aids my recovery as well. Calf stretches with the front of my feet on a stair or a rock and my heels lower and unsupported are a staple both for breaks during a hike and recovery after. Also stretching my thighs by holding onto one foot with the leg bent behind me works well. The hurdler's pose seems to stress my knees.

My most immediate reason for trying to improve my stretching is that I am contemplating a Pemi Loop in a day. I'm thinking I'd likely use up almost the whole day, but the real worry is that my legs will be tight and in pain for at least a week after. I'd want to experiment with and improve my stretching/flexibility before seriously considering a Pemi Loop.

I have found that adding yoga to my workout routines really aids in my recovery from hiking, running etc. The is a book on stretching called Stretching. Its by Bob Anderson and is really good.

What you describe as your symptoms may be at least partially due to dehydration, and lack of electrolytes. 'Hydrate or die!'

That said, I have a stretching routine I go thru, before, during, and after hikes, (actually every day). It came from a PT and was for rehabbing my knees from tendonitis. If you like, I will PM it to you.

I've just had my knee 'trimmed up' and preceded it with an attempted physical therapy rehab (which was insufficient, so we went ahead with the cutting). I learned a TON in pt about stretching and icing, both debunking myths and learning proper techniques (and why things work).

My guess is you could find the relevant stretches on-line (itb, calf, quads, all of 'em). But, to be specific, we did the calf one where you hang your heels over the bottom step; pushing against the wall; hugging your knee (both straight and across the mid-line); the itb hip-check (stand next to a table, cross your legs, stick out your hip); touch your toes (both standing & sitting). None of them were especially esoteric, but the point was to stretch to moderation, for 20-30 seconds each position. Hoping I remember that right!

I also learned that, if you want stretching to be a part of a given hike, begin a stretching routine a month or six beforehand, progressively increasing the muscles' range-of-motion over time. Like building up NSAIDs to a running level, stretching works best if done daily.

There is a growing school of thought that stretching is overdone and irrelevant to most athletes. I would say at this point that it can really help some people, while maybe being pointless for others.

Also, what worked for me may not for you, and it's possible to mess things up if you do them 'wrong,' so beware.

And I agree with Tom Rankin.

What's the warm-up hike (and how long before the main one)?

--Mike.

Thanks for the ideas.

Tom: I'd be interested in getting a look at your routine if you have a chance to PM it to me. I think I'm staying fully hydrated, learning my lesson about 10 years ago in response to some severe calf cramping on Cannon. The biggest issue for me (the dependent variable in my experiments with stretching) is stiffness post-hike - which can get bad as early as getting out of the car after the drive home, sometimes a day or two after.

Mike: The contemplated main hike would be the Pemi Loop. Leading up to it so far was the Wapack 2 1/2 weeks ago, and a Presi Traverse (a 23.8 mile version out Webster Cliff) Saturday. The traverse wasn't a particularly fast one (16.5 hours), but I felt fine throughout and it whetted my appetite for something more. However, I had a couple days of major stiffness afterwards. My thought is to experiment - try to make some adjustments and then try another traverse or something of similar difficulty and see if the results are any different and decide whether or not I have a good window to try the Pemi this year.

Clearly, you tolerate some aspects very well, others, not as much. Sounds like you're already in the ballpark.

Maybe a good icing routine, along with a stretching routine (and, if it were me, an ongoing nsaid regimen) would be helpful. It sounds like your aerobic fitness surpasses your anaerobic lifting strength and your legs tire out. Maybe adding a weight routine at the gym? Really helped me both with the all-day lifting of the legs and the all-day carrying of the back. Also helped the knee and shoulder workouts for skiing. Slow, steady, progressive muscle-building, twice a week at the gym and daily on the bike or trails..., is what worked for me. It took six months, but then I skied most of the way down Chocorua!

Have you seen the frozen, half-full-paper-cup trick? or the 60/40 (alcohol) slush mix? All the various health-care people have been going on and on about icing, and it's made a difference. Maybe the stiffness is an inflammation that would be helped by ice?

Just beware of medical advice!

Enjoy the hike, it sounds awesome!

Thanks Mike. Icing is one thing I haven't tried. I'll look into the "frozen, half-full-paper-cup trick" and the "60/40 (alcohol) slush mix."

--M. said:

Have you seen the frozen, half-full-paper-cup trick? or the 60/40 (alcohol) slush mix? All the various health-care people have been going on and on about icing, and it's made a difference. Maybe the stiffness is an inflammation that would be helped by ice?

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My PT did this when I had knee problems. She also had the audacity to bill the insurance like $25/session for ice packs or some such (for the paper cup ice cube)

The whole experience, including stretching, is documented in this thread.

Tim

1) Get out of car
2) Yawn
3) Take a leak
4) Touch my toes
5) Hike

**Post hike at night: Complain bitterly about sore back, calves, hamstrings, thighs and shoulders, and comment I need to remember to stretch more before hiking.

Same as Dug, ony add a straight up margarita, rocks on side, salt on rim (electroyte replacement)
Sandy

Some long-distance runners I know have had very good luck with post-run ice baths. The Pemi River is probably cold enough to provide benefit. How 'bout trying a 10-15 minute soak when you're done? (With the added benefit of cleaning off your dirty legs!)

I think it's important to force yourself to do at least some short walks in the days following, even if you are sore, and drink lots of water. Will help you recover more quickly.

If you're pushing your body beyond what it is accustomed to, you are probably going to be sore afterwards. And anyway, a little soreness isn't all that bad, is it?

pedxing said:

Thanks Mike. Icing is one thing I haven't tried. I'll look into the "frozen, half-full-paper-cup trick" and the "60/40 (alcohol) slush mix."

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The paper cup trick is good--just tear off the rim to expose the ice. One can also do it with a small yogurt cup--just remove the conical block of ice, invert it, and put it back. You will now have exposed ice with a handle.

My PT always used to put the icepacks in a pillow case (any thin fabric should do) to provide just a bit of insulation between the pack and my skin, presumably to prevent any cold injuries.

Stinkyfeet's suggestion of immersion in cool/cold river water is also good.

I'd think twice about using an ice/water/alcohol mix. Alcohol acts as an antifreeze and the mix can be colder than 32F and thus might cause surface frostbite.

Also ice after exercising, not before. The purpose of the icing is to reduce inflammation caused by the exercise. (One should warm up before exercising, not ice. Just starting out hiking a bit slower is a perfectly good way to warm up.)

Doug

Studies have shown that stretching before the exercise does not reduce injuries. You want to warm up and generally loosen the system before the activity, but intense stretching isn't useful.

Stretching after the activity may be helpful in reducing tightness.

A good way for a hiker to warm up (and cool down) is just to hike or walk a bit slower for a while.

As --M noted, stretching is most useful when it is performed periodically over an extended period of time to increase one's flexibility rather than just before and/or after an activity.

Re stretching the achilles tendon (calf) by standing with one's heel off a step. IMO this is a dangerous stretch because one can easily over stretch the muscle and injure it. (I've done it... ) The wall pushup (foot flat on the floor, lean forward on a wall) is much safer.

Doug

DougPaul said:

...

Re stretching the achilles tendon (calf) by standing with one's heel off a step. IMO this is a dangerous stretch because one can easily over stretch the muscle and injure it. (I've done it... ) The wall pushup (foot flat on the floor, lean forward on a wall) is much safer.

Doug

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Yes, it's playing with fire, but, with care, was an effective component. It was also used in conjunction with a calf-lift exercise (going from a stretch to full extension on tip-toes) as a strengthener. For this, he used a step short enough to back-stop the stretch. It was among the more strenuous exercises..., and it closely mimics what happens on the final pitch from Moriah Brook to Imp Shelter (and about a million other places). I'll never forget the cramps in my calves on that hike!

Also, he talked about icing being another habit with cumulative effects. He said it was okay how red (and a little painful!) a good ice-down could make the skin, and how to stop short of frost-bite. This sensitivity has indeed decreased as I have iced more and more frequently. The surgeon said it was less swollen than he expected (a week after).

Lastly, my physical therapy co-pay has been $20, but I thought it (and whatever they were getting out of the insurance) was well-spent, very educational and hands-on. The surgeon knew his niche, the nurses theirs, the rheumtologist had his opinion, and the pt guy had his. He was very knowledgeable in his area and didn't mind contradicting preconceptions by the other practitioners involved (for example, that ice directly on the skin is, by definition, a no-no -- see the paper-cup thing). In the end, it'll be both the surgeon and the pt guy who'll be indispensable to getting back out.

Then I can go back and finish that aborted Devil's Path. Talk about tall steps!

Good luck on the Pemi! Would love to be danglin' toes right now! Clock-wise or counter? Bring a fishin' rod!

--Mike.

DougPaul said:

Studies have shown that stretching before the exercise does not reduce injuries. You want to warm up and generally loosen the system before the activity, but intense stretching isn't useful.

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Are you aware of any studies with hikers?

This is why I did not publicly post my stretching activities. I would call what I do 'moderate', not intense.

And yes, I do it every day, not just when hiking.

DougPaul said:

Studies have shown that stretching before the exercise does not reduce injuries. You want to warm up and generally loosen the system before the activity, but intense stretching isn't useful.

Click to expand...

Tom Rankin said:

Are you aware of any studies with hikers?

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Sorry, I am not. However, hiking probably isn't all that unique as far as muscles and flexibility are concerned.

I do have references which appear to be for general sports:
1) 'Controversy still exists as to whether or not stretching is effective in reducing sports injuries. A 2004 study published by Dr. Thacker and colleagues of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reviewed 361 scientific articles comparing stretching with other methods to prevent injury. The researchers concluded that stretching was not significantly associated with a reduction in total injuries: "There is no sufficient evidence to endorse or discontinue routine stretching before or after exercise to prevent injury among competitive or recreational athletes... Further research [is] recommended in well-controlled trials to determine the proper rule of stretching in sports."' Also, "In our office, we more often see people who hurt themselves while stretching than while doing strengthening exercises. You should always make sure your muscles are warmed up before starting stretching exercises". (In a section on rehab.) Injuries in Outdoor Recreation, by Gary N Guten, MD, Globe Pequot Press, 2005, pg 25-26.

2) "You'll make permanent gains in muscle length only by stretching after exercise, when your muscles are thoroughtly warmed up." (In context of running.) Staying Fit Over Fifty, Conditioning for Outdoor Activities, by Jim Sloan, The Mountaineers, 1999, pg 126.

And yes, I do it every day, not just when hiking.

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That is the best way--muscles adapt slowly, but as noted above, make sure you are warmed up first.

My rehab from surgery for a femoral fracture (they had to go in through the knee joint...) is perhaps an extreme example: I started with ~40 deg knee flexibility and ultimately reached ~150 deg by a combination of daily gentle stretching (eg sitting in a chair at my computer with my foot as far under me as it would comfortably go for extended periods), every other day to daily medium stretching (pushing up against the current limit), and hard stretching twice a week (my PT pushing as hard as she could on it), all over a period of several months. This was stretching out the joint capsule and its scar tissue as well as the muscles so it might not quite be the same, but it does show how multiple kinds of stretching can be useful.

Doug

The stiffness you feel for a couple days after a hike are a result of the muscles being over-stressed, inflammation from the over-stress and not because your muscles are not stretched. Well stretched muscles that have never hiked before will be sore after a hike, particularly a Presi Traverse or a Pemi Loop.

You should not stretch before a hike (or at any other time) unless your muscles are sufficiently warmed up.

Studies have shown that static stretching (holding a pose for 30 seconds, give or take) practiced prior to an athletic event actually decreases the strength of that muscle during the event.

Ice baths are regularly used by marathoners and ultra marathoners after running to decrease swelling from inflammation. That’s the pain you feel after a hike; torn muscle fibers and inflammation.

Numerous studies have been done on runners to determine if stretching will prevent injury. The results seem to be consistently 50/50. If you run long enough, you will get injured in some way.

Stretching and exercise are not point solutions for a specific event. Don’t expect to be able to cram for the test without some adverse affects.

Heel lowering is neither good or bad. It is both. It was an integral part of my rehab for Achilles tendonitis and it worked. It was to be assiduously avoided in my rehab for plantar fasciitis and it worked. Like a lot of life, it depends.

Hurdlers don’t do the hurdler stretch any more for exactly the reason you state. If you see someone doing it, don’t take advice from them.

You can and will get injured if you stretch improperly, too much, too far or at the wrong time. And sometines that injury is worse than if you had not ever stretched at all.

In my experience if I do not stretch after a long hike, it does not affect my muscle pain in any way over the next couple of days. It will however increase my chances of having a muscle (hamstring and/or adductor longus) cramp (sometimes gripping to the extreme) on the ride home. I rarely if ever stretch my leg muscles before a hike. I do however pay particular attention during a hike to a few of the smaller leg muscles which have given me problems in the past: tensor fasciae latae (connected to the ITB), soleus (under the gastrocnemius aka calf muscle) and adductor longus (inner thigh). Those three have caused me more problems than any of the big muscles. However don’t expect your experiences to mirror mine or anyone else’s. What is useful to me may be useless to you. I’m just another point in the data bath.

All that being said, find a trainer who can work with you to tailor a program to suit you. And don’t worry, the crux of the hike is usually the dismount from the car at the end of the ride anyway. It’s not just you.

JohnL

Yes, we have always jokingly called that dismount "car paralysis." The best fix for it is to "force yourself to walk normally." In general, the best fix for post hike soreness / stiffness is to stay hydrated and keep moving. The worst thing you can do is sit still for an extended period. (Of course all this applies to normal post hike conditions, not to the case where you've incurred a traumatic injury.)

Monday night bike rides are usually called "recovery rides" because after racing the weekend, people ride casually (higher RPM, purely aerobic) to increase blood flow which speeds healing without causing any additional damage.

I've used ice post-hike when my knees were problematic (also post workout) and it definitely helped.

When I do stretch, I usually walk on the treadmill for a few minutes - just enough to get a light sweat. I do stretch several nights per week while watching the Bruins or the Sox.

Tim

Advice on stretching is like advice on diet, it changes every few years. And you can prove all theories don't work.

A few observations from my 30 years of experience in athletics and hiking (yours will probably be different).

1. When I was younger I didn't stretch at all and didn't need to, now I stretch a lot and would find it hard to exercise without doing it.

2. When I hurt my Achilles Tendon a few years back the doctor's first statement was (god you are tight), and I thought I had been stretching.

3. Pilates and Yoga are really good ways to increase your flexibility.

4. After I exercise or hike I stretch and this usually prevents most cramping.

5. Finally ice is your friend.