Soy protein vs. whey protein.

I was wondering which is better pre, during and post hike as a protein source. Soy or whey?

Human muscle has a lot of glutamine whereas soy protein doesn't have a lot I have been told.

Neil said:

I was wondering which is better pre, during and post hike as a protein source. Soy or whey?

Human muscle has a lot of glutamine whereas soy protein doesn't have a lot I have been told.

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FWIW - One is plant-based and the other is animal. Might make a difference to a vegetarian, most certainly to a vegan.

Egg protein.

http://www.incredibleegg.org/health-and-nutrition/proteinweight-management

FYI the latest research on SOY is suggesting some not so nice things about its effect on men

TCD said:

Egg protein.

http://www.incredibleegg.org/health-and-nutrition/proteinweight-management

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This appears to be a commercial advocacy/advertising website run by the American Egg Board. Not a reliable source.

Perhaps the info is correct, perhaps not. I'd get the info from a more reliable source before I believe it.

The following search http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=egg+protein&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq= brings up s number of sources, including http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_(food) which gives a breakdown of the individual protein content. (It also brings up a number of sources of dubious reliability.)

Doug

roadtripper said:

FYI the latest research on SOY is suggesting some not so nice things about its effect on men

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Yes, soy contains phytoestrogens (weak estrogen mimics). According to one moderately reliable source, they have not been shown to have damaging effects on men: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean#Phytoestrogen

Doug

So, which protein source is better for hikers?

I am not concerned about developing man-boobs because I am way too virile and hunky for a thing like that to afflict me.

Egg.

Yeah, I knew that link was the egg board. But I only had a minute to post, and it was the cleanest link I could find, with the fewest ads.

I think it's pretty well established that of generally available foods, eggs have the highest quality protein ("quality" being measured by how well the proportion of amino acids in the food protein matches the required human dietary proportion of essential amno acids). Better than any meats; far better than soy or whey. To get well balanced protein from vegetable sources generally requires lots of mixing and fine tuning, like soy + whey + amaranth + etc.

Just eat an egg. Spend the time you saved researching protein hiking. (Or bushwhacking... )

TCD said:

Yeah, I knew that link was the egg board. But I only had a minute to post, and it was the cleanest link I could find, with the fewest ads.

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Perhaps because the whole site is an ad...

I think it's pretty well established that of generally available foods, eggs have the highest quality protein

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I have no idea if eggs are the best source of protein, but they certainly are a good source. They do, however, contain significant amounts of fat (~11 g) and cholesterol (42 mg) (both mostly in the yolk). Current research suggests that one per day is ok, but ~13 grams of protein (the amount in one egg) is not enough to meet one's daily needs but might be enough to aid recovery. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_(food)#Nutritional_value

Neil said:

So, which protein source is better for hikers?

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Don't know which is better. Look up the protein breakdown for each and compare it to the requirements. Whether the requirements for recovery are the same as the general requirements might also be an open question.

Chocolate skim milk is supposed to be a good recovery drink.

Doug

Milk is the best protein source and has the lowest carbon footprint. Buy milk from a local dairy that have grass fed cows and you get extra points.

Eggs have a cholesterol problem.

Neil - I don't think there is a answer to your question - is it really a serious one? In a similar fashion - are apples or pears better for you?

As for carbon footprint - read an article yesterday re: "Meater Eater's Guide" - I have no idea about the accuracy of the science, especially the graphic, but FWIW it shows that egg production has a relatively low carbon footprint.

Kevin Rooney said:

As for carbon footprint - read an article yesterday re: "Meater Eater's Guide" - I have no idea about the accuracy of the science, especially the graphic, but FWIW it shows that egg production has a relatively low carbon footprint.

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The original report can be found here. Pg 23 shows your graph

1 large egg = 6g protein or 3% of the RDI – 186mg Cholesterol or 62% RDI
12oz 2% milk = 12g protein or 7% of the RDI – 29mg Cholesterol or 10% RDI

Kevin Rooney said:

Neil - I don't think there is a answer to your question - is it really a serious one?

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Dead serious.
The focus with protein seems to be with regards to muscle protein for obvious reasons but I wonder if anyone has looked at what happens to the myriads of other types of protein due to hiking.

I find that full recovery after certain hikes takes longer than maybe it should (3-4 days after a 12 hour plus hike) and was thinking there might be a lot more to it than just replenishing muscle glycogen.

Neil said:

I find that full recovery after certain hikes takes longer than maybe it should (3-4 days after a 12 hour plus hike) and was thinking there might be a lot more to it than just replenishing muscle glycogen.

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Yes, your muscles need time to repair the accumulated damage. (This is why power lifters need to rest their muscles every other day and AT hikers need to take ~1 day per week off.)

And you might be getting a bit older than you used to be...

Doug

DougPaul said:

And you might be getting a bit older than you used to be...
Doug

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Nah, not me.

I guess there's no workaround for the aging process.

DougPaul said:

This appears to be a commercial advocacy/advertising website run by the American Egg Board. Not a reliable source.

Perhaps the info is correct, perhaps not. I'd get the info from a more reliable source before I believe it.

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Right.. like wikipedia...

The protein bars or drinks that I'm familiar with have both soy and whey protein.

Stands to reason that animal protein ie. whey, egg or filet mignon will be a better match for my aging (thanks DougPaul!) muscles than soya.

Perhaps human butt muscle would be the very best protein source. Last time I checked it was socially very unacceptable to consume it.

Is there any science behind whey vs. soya? Google searches reveal a plethora of commercial sites that sell protein supplements and which purport to be scientific. Hammer Nutrition is one example.

maybe you should go straight for the human protein...well...maybe not.

try nuts.

una_dogger said:

try nuts.

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Wonderful source of protein as they also have other added benefits. Almonds are quite a super food with Vitamin E, potassium, quality oils, and a variety of amino acids.

My training is in organic chemistry, not in nutrition so here are some thougths but take them with a grain of sodium chloride:

For clarification, a protein is like a very, very long chain and each link in the chain is an amino acid. There are 20 kinds of links (amino acids). So protein quality is dependent on the variety of the amino acids (links) contained as well as the amount of each. Other factors like fat, vitamins, minerals, etc should be considered as well. There are 8 or 9 essential amino acids (depends on source) that can only be obtained from food. The most important consideration is that your diet contains each of these. A protein source missing any of these (or low) is considered an incomplete source - these are fine in a Balanced diet.

If you are considering protein powder for recovery, my advice is to consider a variety of plant and animal sources like almonds, walnuts, milk, eggs, cheese, edamame/soy, and meat in addition to powder. Mixing a few quality sources will ensure you not only get the protein you need, but all the amino acids necessary for the body as well as the added benefits that accompany some of these other foods. For example, a serving of almonds have about half the potassium of a banana, aiding with sore, cramping muscles (raisins are also good for potassium but not protein) but too much red meat and the saturated fats are high, etc.

I could live on protein bars (if I was rich) and although many have quality protein, they are often stuck together with garbage like corn syrup and sugar. I make my own at this point. Here's a link to the recipe I've found to be my favorite:

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39251&highlight=protein+bars

I advise reading the label on the peanut butter and spending the extra buck to get peanuts only. I no longer use low fat PB, I leave the sugar free syrup out altogether and add more apple sauce (apples only) instead.

Throw in some dark chocolate chips if you like them.

These are a pretty good source of protein as they contain a mix of almonds, peanut butter, and protein powder. The quality of the ingredients makes a big difference with these.

Hope it helps.

Regardng the OP, read the labels, as there are quality and incomplete protein powders of each kind. Make sure they are not sneaking in sugars, etc.

Neil said:

Perhaps human butt muscle would be the very best protein source.

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Careful with this, you may want to choose one of the leaner sources. Some can be high in fat.