Tim Seaver
Well-known member
Cut and Run Indeed
I guess we will never know. No loss.
I guess we will never know. No loss.
New Hampshire Fish and Game Search and Rescue Funding Hearing
- Thread starter J&J
- Start date
Help Support vftt.org:
I've used these examples before when describing prepared/experienced hikers vs. not-prepared/inexperienced hikers. How would you consider:
1) Someone in Bondcliff, in a rainstorm, wearing a cotton sweatshirt, jeans, workboots, and with three kids ranging from age 8-12.
2) Someone on the Franconia range in July, with a Camelback stuff with a rainjacket, a sandwich, headlamp, wearing sneakers, shorts, and a cotton t-shirt.
3) Someone walking in flip-flops, shorts, no shirt drinking a beer by Edmunds Col.
4) Someone sumitting Mt. Monadnock just before sunset, in July, wearing shorts, a t-shirt, and a headlamp (unseen, in a pocket).
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Would any of these people (not needing a rescue, but could've) be considered inexperienced if they:
1) Took a wrong turn off Mt. Garfield, and ended up a mile in the wrong direction going toward Mt. Lafayette, instead of heading out, in fading daylight.
2) Almost drowned crossing a swollen Peabody River during a rainstorm.
3) Falling down the Owl's Head slide, and smashing themselves to bits.
4) Taking a wrong turn off Mt. Jackson, and heading the wrong direction during a fierce winter storm.
5) Skied off-trail, falling into a river drainage and landing face-down in a snow drift in 0-degree weather.
1) Someone in Bondcliff, in a rainstorm, wearing a cotton sweatshirt, jeans, workboots, and with three kids ranging from age 8-12.
2) Someone on the Franconia range in July, with a Camelback stuff with a rainjacket, a sandwich, headlamp, wearing sneakers, shorts, and a cotton t-shirt.
3) Someone walking in flip-flops, shorts, no shirt drinking a beer by Edmunds Col.
4) Someone sumitting Mt. Monadnock just before sunset, in July, wearing shorts, a t-shirt, and a headlamp (unseen, in a pocket).
================
Would any of these people (not needing a rescue, but could've) be considered inexperienced if they:
1) Took a wrong turn off Mt. Garfield, and ended up a mile in the wrong direction going toward Mt. Lafayette, instead of heading out, in fading daylight.
2) Almost drowned crossing a swollen Peabody River during a rainstorm.
3) Falling down the Owl's Head slide, and smashing themselves to bits.
4) Taking a wrong turn off Mt. Jackson, and heading the wrong direction during a fierce winter storm.
5) Skied off-trail, falling into a river drainage and landing face-down in a snow drift in 0-degree weather.
Or hopefully you can find a way to identify and include the hikers that are the least prepared. From your study, cited in reply #318, it identifies that the target audience for education is difficult to reach. My point about number of reads was that THIS audience is not difficult to reach. My point about the collective experience is that THIS audience is probably not the best way to spend education resources (in terms of reducing the number/cost of SARs per unit spent on education.)
As anticipated, most people requiring search and rescue were hiking at the time of the incident, suggesting that education and prevention efforts should focus on hikers. Hikers may be a difficult population to reach, however, as no opportunity to uniformly reach hikers exists. In contrast, many of the other activities included in this study—such as boating, snowmobiling, hunting, and fishing—require a license or permit, which represents a distinct opportunity when safety information may be conveyed or safety courses encouraged.
Who do you consider the target audience?
Do you consider them all equally in need of education?
How do you propose to reach those very casual, occasional hikers?
Tim
TCD
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Well, here's an idea:
Pick JUST ONE topic, or element of safety, and enforce it. The one to pick is being benighted without a light. It's a leading cause; it cannot be argued, like footwwear or clothing - you either have a light or you don't; and it's cheap and easy.
Announcement (in the papers): "This year, anyone who needs rescue because they did not bring a light will be fined $100." (Even a light with dead batteries would get one off the hook.)
After a couple cases, maybe people would pay attention.
Note, this is not the same as "charging the cost of rescue." This is a flat fine. If we could just raise awareness of that one cause, we could make a dent in rescue stats.
Pick JUST ONE topic, or element of safety, and enforce it. The one to pick is being benighted without a light. It's a leading cause; it cannot be argued, like footwwear or clothing - you either have a light or you don't; and it's cheap and easy.
Announcement (in the papers): "This year, anyone who needs rescue because they did not bring a light will be fined $100." (Even a light with dead batteries would get one off the hook.)
After a couple cases, maybe people would pay attention.
Note, this is not the same as "charging the cost of rescue." This is a flat fine. If we could just raise awareness of that one cause, we could make a dent in rescue stats.
erugs
New member
I think it would need to be posted at trail heads (they all have those kiosks right? ) to have any chance of being known and having enforcement stick.
(half serious) "But officer, my iPhone has the flashlight app, see?"
Tim
) to have any chance of being known and having enforcement stick.(half serious) "But officer, my iPhone has the flashlight app, see?"
Tim
hikerbrian
Active member
The thing about "educating" people is it often ends up being rather intrusive. I, for example, was "educated" this past July, and I have to admit, I really didn't enjoy the experience. It doesn't happen all the time, but for some folks, as soon as they perceive themselves to be educators, they begin to view everyone else as uneducated. And I'm not referring to anyone on this board, fyi.
Here's the situation. Me and a group of folks (Mass plates on all of our cars) show up at a state campground one Friday night on the late side, maybe 9:00 (we all had to work that day), plop our money in the tube, set up our tents and share some dessert before turning in. As we're brushing our teeth, along comes the camp ranger and a cop. Yes, a cop, with a big flashlight and a gun on his hip.
Ranger: "Some reason why you folks haven't paid yet?"
Me: "Um, actually, we did pay, here's the stub, you can find the money in the tube."
Ranger (suspicious): "Uh huh. I checked the tube half an hour ago."
Me: "Well, we just arrived 15 minutes ago."
Ranger: "I just want to let you folks know that these campsites don't have WALLS you know, so if you talk loud, it's going to bother other people."
Me (to myself): Wait, WHAT??? [cop shining the flashlight in our faces]
Ranger: "And I see you brought some stoves, I guess that means you'll be doing some cooking. You know BEARS LOVE the smell of food cooking! We've had BEARS coming through this campground regularly."
Me: "Right, thanks, got it."
[Ranger and cop wander off, but not before cop shines his flashlight in all of our cars]
I can only surmise that we appeared to not understand that campsites don't have walls, that you have to pay a fee to camp, and that bears are big scary animals. Never mind that I grew up in NH, have hiked all over the Whites, and Montana, and the North Cascades, and California, oh and Alaska. So thank you for educating me about camping and bears.
So you see, the point I'm trying to make is, be careful with your educational outreach. I say that from a purely selfish standpoint as I don't generally respond well to condescension. And as pure as your intentions may be, it's not that much fun to be the recipient of "education" when it isn't warranted. Choose your targets wisely.
Here's the situation. Me and a group of folks (Mass plates on all of our cars) show up at a state campground one Friday night on the late side, maybe 9:00 (we all had to work that day), plop our money in the tube, set up our tents and share some dessert before turning in. As we're brushing our teeth, along comes the camp ranger and a cop. Yes, a cop, with a big flashlight and a gun on his hip.
Ranger: "Some reason why you folks haven't paid yet?"
Me: "Um, actually, we did pay, here's the stub, you can find the money in the tube."
Ranger (suspicious): "Uh huh. I checked the tube half an hour ago."
Me: "Well, we just arrived 15 minutes ago."
Ranger: "I just want to let you folks know that these campsites don't have WALLS you know, so if you talk loud, it's going to bother other people."
Me (to myself): Wait, WHAT??? [cop shining the flashlight in our faces]
Ranger: "And I see you brought some stoves, I guess that means you'll be doing some cooking. You know BEARS LOVE the smell of food cooking! We've had BEARS coming through this campground regularly."
Me: "Right, thanks, got it."
[Ranger and cop wander off, but not before cop shines his flashlight in all of our cars]
I can only surmise that we appeared to not understand that campsites don't have walls, that you have to pay a fee to camp, and that bears are big scary animals. Never mind that I grew up in NH, have hiked all over the Whites, and Montana, and the North Cascades, and California, oh and Alaska. So thank you for educating me about camping and bears.
So you see, the point I'm trying to make is, be careful with your educational outreach. I say that from a purely selfish standpoint as I don't generally respond well to condescension. And as pure as your intentions may be, it's not that much fun to be the recipient of "education" when it isn't warranted. Choose your targets wisely.
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