Irene blowdown compared to 1950 hurricane

Irene blowdown in the ADK compared to 1950 ADK hurricane

___In the ADK, specifically.____

As far as the amount of blowdown goes...

If the 1950 hurricane were a "10", and the worst winter storm (in terms of blowdown) of the past 10 years were a "3", how would Irene rate?

Again, this is in terms of over_under_around_through_lose the trail blowdown.

Trying to decide between working towards completing the NE111 (73/115) or just heading out west this winter over Christmas vacation. It's a little bit of journey from where I live.

I haven't seen a lot of the white mtn trails, but I think the biggest issues was not blowdowns, but flood damage, erosion...things like that. There might be trails near rivers that have piles of trees on them, but those aren't blowdowns, they were just left there by flood waters!

I didn't know there was a 1950 hurricane in New Eng, I've only heard of the 38 hurricane. That one definitely did the most amount of damage when it came to blowdowns.

EDIT, then again, you are thinking about the bushwhacking side to things, so its entirely possible there are more blowdowns off trail than on. I still don't think it was that bad. The strongest winds from Irene in New Eng were on Mt Washington (surprised?) and then dropped off big time the further down in elevation one travels.

EDIT number 2: Shows how much attention I am paying! This is the NY thread. Still, at least for the Adirondacks, it prob wasn't too bad, most of Irene's winds were east of the center, and by the time it made it north into NY the wind field had spread out and weakened considerably. Maybe blowdowns in the Catskills? Maybe?

Grouse,

Sorry, I didn't make it clear that I was thinking only about the ADK. The reason why there's a lot more blowdown on the trailless peaks there compared to New England is because there was a 1950 hurricane there.

Not really considering coming back to any of the New England 67 until after I have all the remaining 42 in the ADK. That's going to take long enough, especially since every time I come up it's 2 days travel time.

lx93 said:

Grouse,

Sorry, I didn't make it clear that I was thinking only about the ADK. The reason why there's a lot more blowdown on the trailless peaks there compared to New England is because there was a 1950 hurricane there.

Not really considering coming back to any of the New England 67 until after I have all the remaining 42 in the ADK. That's going to take long enough, especially since every time I come up it's 2 days travel time.

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Haha yeah, whoops, I def was not paying close enough attention. Again, I am definitely not an expert on the Adirondacks, I would think the blowdown issue from Irene would be quite low because the wind field from Irene weakened considerably after it hit land, plus tropical storms/hurricanes strongest winds are east to the center, and Irene passed east of the Adirondacks, so the strongest winds were in CT, and eastern new eng.

One more thing
To kind of jump on what I said the first time, there are prob more issues with flood damage and land slides than actual blowdowns....

New slides
http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2011/08/dozens-of-new-landslides-reported-in.html

There was blowdown in the Adirondacks, but it was no where near the levels of the 1950's hurricane. In fact, most of the trails in the High Peaks are even clearer now than they were before the hurricane, because the DEC let trail crews use chainsaws to cut blowdown after the storm (usually chainsaw use is restricted in Wilderness Areas even for trail work).

I know that the Western High Peaks didn't get hit very hard, so I doubt there's much significant blowdown on the herd paths in the Seward and Santanoni Ranges- probably just a tree here and there.

Can't speak as to the herd paths in the Dix Range- I know that the Dix and the Giant Mountain wilderness areas got hit harder than other spots in the Adirondacks.

I'd agree that even in the Adirondacks, most of the damage was due to flooding, not wind.

DSettahr said:

I'd agree that even in the Adirondacks, most of the damage was due to flooding, not wind.

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Everything I've read and seen agrees with that, and the same holds true in the Catskills.

While there were new slides, it was the villages down low that bore the brunt of the storm, via water, not tree damage.

lx93 said:

Sorry, I didn't make it clear that I was thinking only about the ADK. The reason why there's a lot more blowdown on the trailless peaks there compared to New England is because there was a 1950 hurricane there.

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Hmmmm. I don't really think any current blowdown encountered in the Dacks can be attributed to the 1950 blowdown. What wasn't removed by the timber industry has almost certainly decomposed by now.

Here's a great historical article from Adirondack Almanack:

The big blowdown

Puma concolor said:

Hmmmm. I don't really think any current blowdown encountered in the Dacks can be attributed to the 1950 blowdown. What wasn't removed by the timber industry has almost certainly decomposed by now.

Here's a great historical article from Adirondack Almanack:

The big blowdown

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1) The blowdown that we see today in the ADKs is due in large part to Hurricane Floyd. I can remember walking out to Allen, and seeing huge swaths of trees that were either chainsawed out of the path, or even bulldozed in some cases.

2) Interesting read! Fascinating that the trees are well anchored against the prevailing winds and therefore susceptible to storms from the SE. Irene was basically straight up from the south.

DSettahr said:

There was blowdown in the Adirondacks, but it was no where near the levels of the 1950's hurricane. In fact, most of the trails in the High Peaks are even clearer now than they were before the hurricane, because the DEC let trail crews use chainsaws to cut blowdown after the storm (usually chainsaw use is restricted in Wilderness Areas even for trail work).

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Grouse, D, Tom, Puma,

Thanks for the feedback. Good to know that the peak-bagging isn't affected, though I have to put things in perspective and feel sorry for all the local residents some of whom are no doubt still trying to get back on their feet.

I had based my impression upon there still being a lot of blowdown from the 1950 hurricane on a book written- I think back in the early '80s, even though here it says 1996:
http://www.amazon.com/Exploring-Adi...2329/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320672492&sr=8-1
But what Puma wrote about it all having rotted away makes sense now that I think about it.

There were a few scattered patches, mostly in the Dix Wilderness and surrounding Elk Lake Lodge property that experienced severe blowdown with Irene. Otherwise, the other reports that it was mostly flood damage. If the 1950 hurricane was a "10" then Floyd in 1999 was a "7", but only because the destruction was not as widespread. In the area from Allen to the east as far as the Giant Mt. area there were huge swaths of trees leveled with some trails not open for a year or so.

Tom Rankin said:

2) Interesting read! Fascinating that the trees are well anchored against the prevailing winds and therefore susceptible to storms from the SE. Irene was basically straight up from the south.

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Agreed! And I have a somewhat similar example....back in Feb 2010 southern NH had a short, but nasty windstorm when winds gusted to 70 mph out of the southeast. Many trees..esp the pines, were no match to a wind direction they were not used to, the southeast. The peak winds only lasted an hour or two, but man, what a sound! I can't imagine being stuck in the woods during hurricane force winds!

lx93 said:

I had based my impression upon there still being a lot of blowdown from the 1950 hurricane on a book written- I think back in the early '80s, even though here it says 1996:
http://www.amazon.com/Exploring-Adi...2329/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320672492&sr=8-1
But what Puma wrote about it all having rotted away makes sense now that I think about it.

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Burnside's book is a great read about their journey, but father and son Ben finished in 1981, so most of the trail information (aside from mileage and elevation profiles on the first page of each chapter) are all but obsolete. I would reach for the Adirondack Trails High Peaks Region for more current info, written by Mr. Goodwin.

I cleared my adopted herdpath, Herbert Brook up Mount Marshall, two weeks after Irene and the damage was no worse than normal spring cleanup although there were two larger blowdown clusters that required a little extra attention. The brook breaching it's banks caused the most trouble, and will require a few cairns rebuilt in the spring as I have read many reports where people were finding the path difficult to follow with the numerous crossings. I didn't have a problem but I have been there a "few" times!

In addition to that day, I spent another day clearing with two of the 46er trailmasters with special dispensation from the DEC to use a chainsaw in which we cleared Hunter's Pass and the Beckhorn Trail up Dix. This area, as Tony stated, was mostly scattered patches in localized areas. I would rate this somewhere between normal spring clearing and Floyd damage. There were many blowdowns that were from previous years but much too large for a handsaw/axe crew to handle. Having been out peakbagging a bit, I can vouch for the four Sewards, Macs and Great Range all being in great condition post Irene.

Conversely, if you actually want to see blowdown, and lots of it, check out the Five Ponds Wilderness in the Western Adirondacks, southwest of Cranberry Lake. There was a microburst there in 1995 that absolutely leveled large swaths of the forest, and left nothing standing. A lot of old growth forest was wiped out in a matter of minutes. It's starting to come back, but the damage is still very apparent.

Puma concolor said:

Hmmmm. I don't really think any current blowdown encountered in the Dacks can be attributed to the 1950 blowdown. What wasn't removed by the timber industry has almost certainly decomposed by now.

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I believe there is blowdown scattered throughout the ADK high peaks that is attributable to the 1950 hurricane, most off trail. I can think of Sewards, Redfield, Cliff, Street as examples. Our more experience bushwhackers could chime in with other locations. Some tree species decompose relatively slowly if they are not in contact with the ground.

Only few areas got hammered by Irene induce high winds (for instance the Hurricane Trail from the East was just about obliterated over a mid-level .5-mile section) but several stretch of trails were devoured by slides. We are lucky DEC was quick and efficient in organizing a very large trail crew to take care of numerous re-routes and monstrous blockage. One only need to climb the Wolf Jaw Brook Trail or walk the South Side Trail to get a picture of the amount of work that was required to clear the house size piles of tangle debris/trees blocking the way.

DSettahr said:

Conversely, if you actually want to see blowdown

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Nope, that's not me. I hate the stuff- makes it easier to lose the trail, if you decide to go through it, it's a pain if you have any traction on... yuck.

I'm just a peakbagger checking off another list.

BlackSpruce said:

DEC was quick and efficient in organizing a very large trail crew to take care of numerous re-routes and monstrous blockage. One only need to climb the Wolf Jaw Brook Trail or walk the South Side Trail to get a picture of the amount of work that was required to clear the house size piles of tangle debris/trees blocking the way.

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Thanks to all who did this. Perhaps I outta spend a day or 2 this summer working on a trail croo.

lx93 said:

Nope, that's not me.

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The trails aren't bad- they've been cleared several times since, and the blowdown doesn't hinder your travel (if you stay on the trail at least). It's quite impressive to walk through the woods and see what nature is capable of, though.

Mr. Goodwin's book has just been purchased per your recommendation. Maybe he owes you a Clif Bar as a "commission" for your referral!

I agree that Burnside's book is out-of-date for planning purposes. But it's a great read because not only does it show how peak-bagging really gets to you, but it shows how much easier (and more enjoyable) it is nowadays. He had to hire trail guides for many of his hikes, whereas you & I get info within minutes, hours or at most, days on difficult to navigate trails. Their gear was- well, not like Mallory & Irvine's, but certainly not what you find on steapandcheap.com, REI, Hudson Trail Outfitters, EMS, etc. Most of their hikes were 1 or 2 peaks at a time, but given the price of gas nowadays, I'm looking for 3 to 8 peaks in a day.

procook131 said:

Burnside's book is a great read about their journey, but father and son Ben finished in 1981, so most of the trail information (aside from mileage and elevation profiles on the first page of each chapter) are all but obsolete. I would reach for the Adirondack Trails High Peaks Region for more current info, written by Mr. Goodwin.

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