Pepper spray?

Puma concolor said:

As long as no one starts eating spiders, I'm good with it.

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Eating spiders is the realm of my two cats... (thread drift... bwahaha)

Jay

dug said:

Since I guess we are going down the dog thread route....

I once had my lab approach another hiker, a middle-aged man who was apparently deathly afraid of dogs. Not sure. My lab was on the tail end of a Pemi valley hike through, from Zealand to Lincoln, and was exhausted. She came up on this guy, who raised his hand and was about to hit her. My dog just walked by her, without a care in the world. My hiking partners gave the guy an earful (I just ensured my dog kept moving to get her out of the situation).

I'd hate to think she (or anyone else downwind) took a faceful just for, in reality, welll...just for existing.

Interesting...this was about an hour after chasing Brutus the Black Bear out of our camp. Even when we were staring him down and chasing him off, I don't think spray would've been the answer there.

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That was quite a day you had. Fortunately your pup came out unscathed.

--M, you make great points. Trekking poles may work wonders. No one ever WANTS to spray a dog. A badly behaved dog is still just being a dog...the real fault lies with the owners. I'm all for NOT using spray (I never actually have on the trails).

My own standpoint comes from having witnessed a dog attack. It was fast and brutal. The woman was on the ground in less than a second. The dog went from casual to full-blown attack in a heartbeat. Trekking poles wouldn't have done any good. The woman was hospitalized, the dog was eventually put down.

I've also seen a calm dog suddenly leap at my daughter and miss severely biting her face by a millimeter. Again, the change in behavior and demeanor was fast, and the owner was shocked ("he never does that"). Alex wasn't doing anything wrong, she was petting him after having asked permission.

Point is -- NO ONE wants to pepper spray a dog, and if using some other method happens to work, then that's fantastic. However, seeing an unleashed dog bounding toward us on the trails is always a great source of stress for me -- those dog attack images immediately play through my mind -- and having the pepper spray eliminates my stress. I know I can legally use it should I feel I really need to, so I know for a fact my kids and I will remain safe. That's pretty much what it boils down to.

Jay H said:

Eating spiders is the realm of my two cats... (thread drift... bwahaha)

Jay

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Cats can be scary and unpredictable. Can't ever be too careful around them.

I just don't know one could determine friend or foe, so quickly, to either a) avoid spraying a happy, unthreatening dog; or b) spray a dog that is in the middle of attacking something, and it may only make it worse.

The examples I see say "less than a second". That's a pretty quick determination to make. Seems to me, you'd have to have the safety off and ready to go at all times. Makes for a pretty stressful day.



And, to be clear, my current dog isn't always friendly enough for the trail, so she doesn't come with me anymore. She probably would've/could've been sprayed once or twice. She never attacked or bit anyone or thing, I just don't like her attitude enough and decided she only hikes around the house, where I know I won't see anyone.

So what do the would-be dog sprayers do after they have incapacitated someone's companion out on the trails? Walk
Away? Help them carry it out?

May the wind always be in your direction.

Happy Trails.

TrishandAlex said:

Nah -- everyone has the right to carry weapons against what they honestly perceive to be aggressive, out-of-control dogs.

It's not John or Jane Smith's job to understand puppy behavior or to know how to deal with someone else's dog. It is the dog owner's job to keep their dog/puppy off of John and Jane Smith, period. The laws in every state (even Massachusetts) reflect that.

I would NOT recommend experimenting with stances, words, or motions if you see an unleashed, aggressive dog quickly coming your way. I would not wait until the dog is already committing violent acts (the time it takes for a dog to "descend into violent acts" can be a milisecond or less). I would use what time you have to get the spray out and ready it while the dog is coming. The words, stances, etc, often do not work on very aggressive dogs. What will work, without fail, is the spray. So -- especially if you've got kids with you -- use what you know will keep you and your loved ones safe. If you do have to spray the dog, the fault lies 100% with the dog owner. You've every legal and moral right to defend yourself and/or your kid and /or your own leashed pet. A dog owner does NOT have the right to bring his or her dog on the trails (or the sidewalk) if he or she doesn't take the rights of other people seriously.

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Thanks for this response, Trish. You nailed it...it is the owner's responsibility to monitor and control the behavior of their animal. Period!!

Maddy said:

I'm happy this topic came up. Had never considered that Molly might get a face full for behaving like a "pup," but it is a very serious consideration. We are duty bound to protect our "fur kids" from people and vice versa. I will most certainly be on high alert if there are children who I do not know in the area.


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Absolutely - because it's always the dog's fault and even parents that you think may know better think nothing of letting thier child crawl up
To your sleeping dog on all fours and stick thier face in your dog's face.

We have to protect our dogs from the ignorance of others, however, I do not carry pepper spray for such purposes.

Always sad to me when a thread disintegrates into a paranoid dog hate thread. :-(

OK...here is another option.

http://www.amazon.com/Premier-DIREC...KIV6/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1323184057&sr=8-5

Dr Nicolas Dodman, who is in director of the Behavior Clinic, at the Tufts Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine recommends this spray if one feels compelled to carry a deterrent for dogs. Citronella Spray!

I do carry it. As a mentioned my "HALT" is 99% for human perps.

This works and is much less traumatic for the dog.

http://www.amazon.com/Premier-DIREC...KIV6/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1323184057&sr=8-5

I offer this for your consideration!

una_dogger said:

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Always sad to me when a thread disintegrates into a paranoid dog hate thread. :-(

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I don't see that as having happened (yet?) here, keep a good thought!

Trish, I agree/understand being equipped for what you encounter, and have my own parental protectiveness when I'm with a group (especially my own kids). As a grown man, tho, I've had to learn to dial it back and be careful how I defend.

The true violent assaults must indeed be prevented and dealt with (so go ahead! defend yourself!); I just warn against having only a hammer and seeing everything a nail. If I ever tried the spray-first-talk-later thing..., well, badness lurks: I'm over six feet and almost 200 pounds; I'd be looked at for a (counter-) assault charge. If I really felt that I or one of mine were being threatened, I'd rather follow think-fast-rabbit and not blindly strike out.

As for bears, I've never had the encounter and therefore no practice in how to deal. I hope it's good encounter and that I don't need all the good education!

Pretty sure there's little more the OP will learn from this thread.