NH trailhead vandalism

Good suggestions, Roy ... except the embarassing the cops part. Also I wouldn't suggest leaving your doors unlocked. Yeah, you may help prevent some vandalism, but someone looking to steal your entire car is less likely to want to break a window to get in.

Did most vehicles that were broken into have very loud anti-theft alarms?
Do the thieves just disable them and carry on with their burglaries?
If all those cars had alarms, wouldn't that cause a tremendous amount of noise that could be heard for some distance??
My truck alarm makes an incredible amount of noise. If ten of those were sounding off at the same time you would think that someone might hear them.
Does Pinkham Notch Visitor Center ever have problems like this?
Just wondering if we are wasting our money installing alarms that are essentially useless.
Why don't the police try installing hidden cameras?
Frequent patrols witha canine officer wouldn't be a bad idea. Anyone hiding in the woods wouldn't be hiding long with bowser hot on the trail!!!
I had one of those in my yard recently at 3am and was very impressed at how diligent and committed "Officer Cito" was. There's nothing like a good nose to the ground to flush someone out.

There are numerous trailheads in Pinkham Notch nowhere in hearing distance of the Pinkham visitor’s center. A hidden camera at the visitor’s center wouldn’t help the cars at these other trailheads. I also think the enormous expense of having hidden cameras at all these (and other areas as Randolph area was hit also) wouldn’t make it feasible nor would it be possible to have them watched throughout the night. The windows I saw broken were at the Nineteen Mile Brook trailhead. Car alarms could be going off a long time before any one would hear them, say at 3 am (as could be said at many of the other trailheads).

I thought the idea of leaving a door unlocked was a good one,until my wife,who is in the insurance business pointed out a problem. If you leave a vehicle unlocked and contents are stolen,and there is no sign of forced entry-you lose. Glass breakage,as inconvenient as it might be-usually has no deductible.
maybe the answer is a note in big letters on the window"unlocked-no wallet,cash or credit cards-please look but don't break!"
Chances are your car will a:be passed by or b:get searched and left alone. Worst case-they pop a window for spite-your insurance will cover it.
Maybe the AMC will consider running the hikers shuttle to the trailheads leading to the huts on a year round basis. If the situation gets worse,hut usage will drop off,and the AMC will lose some serious cash.

yes bob, western newfoundland summer 2003.
my most memorable trip yet, have you been there?
spent a few weeks there touring and visiting relatives, if anyone needs info i have tons.


happy holidays!

The cost of installing cameras's would be prohibitive for the concerned parties. You would need a microwave relay camera system and a 24 hour staffed post by a police department or security company to watch the cameras. Installing a camera and not having it observed or installing "fake or dummy" cameras incurs huge liability for whoever is responsible. Not only that but there are allot of jurisdictions involved depending on the location of the trailhead- US Forest Service, State Police, local police, and probably others we aren't aware of. K-9's are awesome but also very expensive to train and maintain, and I doubt there are many available in the small PD's up north.

amstony said:

The cost of installing cameras's would be prohibitive for the concerned parties. You would need a microwave relay camera system and a 24 hour staffed post by a police department or security company to watch the cameras.

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I was thinking of something more low-tech. Like a local camera system wired to a simple tape recording device. The cameras wouldn't be monitored at all, but if someone came back to thier car and it had been vandalized a review of the tape might be helpful in catching the offender.

Since the equipment would be stored at the site, it would probably only be usefull for a "developed" trailhead like Pinkham Notch or the Cog lot.

^MtnMike^

My brother lives in Albuquerque, NM and says trailhead vandalism is a big problem there. He knows people who have returned to their car to find all of their wheels stolen. He said some people leave their window open with a bottle of booze on the seat as a "pay off" hoping the culprit will otherwise leave the car alone.

i only saw one break-in that happened while i was in the woods, and it had both passenger windows broken out... it was a local (n.h. plates) while the trailhead had n.y., ma. & ct. cars all parked there (ones that would probably have more stuff stashed in them) - i wonder what was in that guys pickup truck in plain view? - - - i have seen many parking lots with "diamonds" laying all over the place - after i see the "diamonds" i try to park someplace else if i had someplace else i could climb instead, but sometimes you have to park there to get to that peak - you just have to hope... - - - - while talking to a jackson police officer at a trailhead that had glass, he told me that they caught the guys the week before... so some do end up getting caught - the state police, sheriff's deputies and town police do make occasional runs into the trailheads overnight, i have seen them while staying in my car - i have also seen the WMNF "parking lot attendents" out at night checking stickers and chasing anyone sleeping in thier car, so there is a slim chance of someone getting caught once in awhile - but even if it stops it don't take long before someone else (or the same ones) start doing it again.

Mike P. said:

Hey Bobmak, which lots did you get hit in? My initial thought is that lots close to the road offer easy quick targets for window smashing but too much traffic to rummage through cars looking for goodies, if they do that they may get caught sooner than later. Lots like the Rocky Branch lot off 16, Zealand & the others on USFS dirt roads offer greater privacy for piracy.

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My car has been broken into at both 19 mile brook and Zealand, both in the winter. My ex's car was broken into at 19 mile brook as well, but in the fall. Sad part on hers was it was a Saturn. She left the window down a little and they tried to it open, in the process they broke the plastic on the door. Mass. insurance covers glass, but the door damage ate the entire $500 deductable. Her car had nothing in it. In my break ins, at 19 Mile they took 2 bags that contained mine and my hiking partner's clean clothes for the ride home along with a box of cassettes. At Zealand, the car was empty.

[off-topic to Charlos]

charlos said:

yes bob, western newfoundland summer 2003.
my most memorable trip yet, have you been there?
spent a few weeks there touring and visiting relatives, if anyone needs info i have tons.


happy holidays!

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Charlos,

I believe I have been in that exact spot -- if I remember, that cleft over your left shoulder is at the top of a very impressive waterfall down the side of the plateau you are on, and the view of the Bay of Isles from there is spectacular.

A friend and I lunched on canned sardines up there in 1983. We hitched from Boston to the ferry at Bar Harbor and then the length of Nova Scotia and on to Newfoundland and back home through PEI, one of the best trips I’ve ever taken.

The next summer, my friend Dave (he posts here as “dave.m”) and I stopped here to see the waterfall on our way back from Labrador.

I really have to get back there some day. Thanks for the memory jog!

wow bob, must be the spot!now im getting all excited.

on the way back to the road there was an impressive yet startlingly cold swimming hole which all the newfoundlanders were jumping into like it was nothing..yikes.

really must get back there, never made it to labrador instead we headed over to the east coast.

thanks for the memory jog as well.

happy holidays

charlos said:

on the way back to the road there was an impressive yet startlingly cold swimming hole which all the newfoundlanders were jumping into like it was nothing..yikes.

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if you think the rivers & streams are cold up there... try the ocean (even colder) - i can't even remember seeing anyone in the water at the ocean or bays while i was up there (probably like swimming in a glass of iced tea with all those iceburgs that are even there in july & august).

when we were heading back to port au basques we stopped at cheeseman provincial park, it was august there were swimmers, sunbathers etc, me and my wife were wearing fleeces!

charlos said:

sunbathers etc, me and my wife were wearing fleeces!

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i know - but when it is in the ninety degree range down here it is in the sixties up there (nice) - while i was up there my kids did swim in the lakes... but in the saltwater, they wouldn't go past thier knees - beautiful place though (at least in the summer... i wonder what the winter is like up there?).

I just posted this on the AMC boards. A few years ago we had a vandalism problem at a local mall. A few people started leaving some very special gift items for the thieves. These included road kill and another substance which I won't describe here. Need I say that the thievery ended rather abruptly.
Hikers could package some very attractive and appealing gifts for our friends, the vandals. We would have to be a little cautious so as not to smell up our vehicles too much. One could leave an old camera/wallet on the seat with some nice slimmy, stinky material on it. Preferably something truly foul. Folks who know a little about wiring could set a a nice little shock system for our buddies. We could bake nice chocolate brownies, full of X-Lax , nicely packaged, or some muffins containing a hefty dose of Ipecac so they could spend the day vomiting their guts out. We could place something appealing on the front seat but have it covered with a sticky substance so that when they touch it, there fingers would adhere to it.
There is nothing like a nice gift box with wrapping and bow containing a dead skunk wrapped in plastic and lots of colorful tissue paper. The list is endless.
We shouldn't be victims to these people. It's time to seek revenge. Who wants to spend their day hiking wondering what condition their vehicle will be in when they return. I think if we put our minds together we could think of any number of good solid deterrents to help solve our problem and give us some peace of mind. If they are going to vandalize our cars, we may as well give them a run for their money.

maybe, maybe not

Who leaves their car in the mall parking lot for an entire long weekend for the duped or stricken vandals to come back and wreak their own vengeance? The mall parking has a bit more security surveillance and presence, more traffic, and less long-term parking. Without those things, why would a vandal (who has already demonstrated his or her unscrupulousness) upon discovering the gift-wrapped roadkill's or ex-lax brownies' true nature, not return to slash my tires, torch my car, etc.?

Other than that, a brilliant plan.

I like Maddy's imagination. How about a "pre-reported as stolen" credit card?

Maddy said:

There is nothing like a nice gift box with wrapping and bow containing a dead skunk wrapped in plastic and lots of colorful tissue paper.

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It sounds like these vandals have plenty of time and privacy to go through a parking lot full of cars. Do you want to take the chance that they open your "gift" before they grab it and discover your plan? I bet they would come up with some creative ways of using the dead skunk on your vehicle.

Maddy said:

Folks who know a little about wiring could set a a nice little shock system for our buddies. We could bake nice chocolate brownies, full of X-Lax , nicely packaged, or some muffins containing a hefty dose of Ipecac so they could spend the day vomiting their guts out.

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I'm not sure if this is a law or urban legend, but setting up a trap to physically hurt vandals might give them the right to sue you. That would suck. A shock system is a guaranteed way to make sure that after they break into your vehicle, they will proceed to thoroughly trash it. Not a good plan.

yea - tough situation and it really sucks that this stuff happens. This is going to turn into a rant - but its is needed. I guess it was only a matter of time. I go to the whites to get away from this crap. Damn it if I could find work - I would live up there - but I am confined to massachusetts where this crap is the norm and from what I can tell more or less tolerated. It is disagracefull that this type of behavoir is just simply tolerated now. While these punks really need to be taught a lesson and I am all for doing it. Tough to do when your 4000 ft up the mountain. Tough to do when your worried about having somehting that will drive you home after a long day or weekend. My biggest fear in climbing was always coming back to a car that wouldn't start or a flat tire. Now people are resorting pleasing these scumbags so that not to harm them more and if you want to drive home that seems like the thing to do. Lesser of 2 evils really. What the hell is country coming to. Ok - enough of that.