Washington?

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Thanks all

Really appreciating all the advice...it is happily taken with no issue of hard feelings or "overstepping". Hikers have a reputation of being concerned and caring of eathother and I take all this wonderful advice in that spirit.

Bob and I have summitted Washington 3 times in the winter...and have done the Jewell several times. We have all the right gear and some (not a ton...but not novices either) experiance with winter hiking.

We have given this friend a very detailed list AND hubby is heading to his house tonight to make SURE he has what he needs...We also have several things we will be letting him borrow to assist with this trek; snowshoes (with good crampons), traction, base layers, really good boots. The final saw of WHERE and IF depends on what hubby discovers when he goes over tonight (oh and the weather of course...:eek:)...if the friend is NOT ready...he does not go; hubby and I will go without him and he will have to wait for spring/summer.

Again, I LOVE THIS FORUM! and thank you for your concern and advice...that's why I come here with questions :D
 
hikes-with-him said:
Really appreciating all the advice...it is happily taken with no issue of hard feelings or "overstepping". Hikers have a reputation of being concerned and caring of eathother and I take all this wonderful advice in that spirit.

Bob and I have summitted Washington 3 times in the winter...and have done the Jewell several times. We have all the right gear and some (not a ton...but not novices either) experiance with winter hiking.

We have given this friend a very detailed list AND hubby is heading to his house tonight to make SURE he has what he needs...We also have several things we will be letting him borrow to assist with this trek; snowshoes (with good crampons), traction, base layers, really good boots. The final saw of WHERE and IF depends on what hubby discovers when he goes over tonight (oh and the weather of course...:eek:)...if the friend is NOT ready...he does not go; hubby and I will go without him and he will have to wait for spring/summer.

Again, I LOVE THIS FORUM! and thank you for your concern and advice...that's why I come here with questions :D
Click to expand...

Sounds like your friend is in excellent hands. It's good to have friends like that.:)
 
A disadvantage of Jewel and Ammo Ravine Trails is that the upper portions are fully exposed to the prevailing winds. If you have to descend in bad weather, you have to head into the wind.

Mts Pierce and Eisenhower are worth considering--the Crawford Path and Eisenhower Tr are well protected for all except the last bit and the views from both are quite nice.

Doug
 
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I went up the east side last week and turned around at lions head due to the high winds and the snow/graupel that those winds were transporting. A full face mask is highly recomended! My balaclava and goggles covered everything but the tip of my nose and it felt like that little piece of exposed skin was gettting sandblasted and would get frostbite for sure if I continued. Time for a new balaclava that covers my nose completley for me.
One thing I noted: currently on the east side, (not sure maybe the west side too) is there is a breakable crust pretty much everywhere that is wind scoured making travel off the packed trail exhausting with out floatation.
 
There are several peaks that are less formidable (less travel above treeline) that would still offer great views:

  • South Twin
  • Garfield (from the old foundation)
  • Lincoln
  • Liberty
  • Munroe
  • Cannon (from the tower)
  • Pierce
  • Ike
  • Carrigain (from the tower)
  • Moosilauke

Even Old Speck in Maine has a tower that affords 360 views...
 
I would have to agree with others, Washington is not a particularly good choice for a first time above treeline experience. Just spending all day on crampons is rough on the body. I'd rather not have to take care of blisters or a spiked calf up there. Taking a shakedown cruise on a lower, less exposed peak will give you the ability to test out all the gear and make sure this person can handle and enjoy the experience.

Eisenhower, Liberty, Madison or Monroe would be much better choices IMO if you want to get a safe and enjoyable first above treeline winter experience. After that, consider Washington.
 
Awesome hike, your friend is going to love it! Hope the weather is good for views, that section above treeline on the Jewell and across the Gulfside Trail is one of my favorites.

Enjoy it!

-Chris
 
Several excellent suggestions above should the OP want to take friend up an easier mountain (though I believe the plan is Washington, with or without friend depending on equipment).

Let me add two suggestions (either for the OP or for other readers of this thread): Moriah and Carter Dome plus Mount Height. Great views and limited exposure.
 
One reason you dont see alot of TR for washington is most veteran hikers doing routes like washington dont bother to post, myself included. The reason? climbing washington requiers doing your own homework, ie. knowing what to expect for conditions, checking the OBS forecast. I like keven would not do the jewell ammou loop clockwise with someone of limited experience, your talking about descending potentionally steep ice, it would be easier to ascend the ammou imo. The Jewell is not hard technically but it is long and exposed, keep in mind if you get socked in up high you have to navigate this dude down, sounds like he is reliant on you for safety. Thats fine, you seem to have experience, but when I take someone who is '' solely" reliant on me, I take no chances with thier safety, its the extra care of a leader that must be followed. Personally if you want him to get to treeline and show him winter climbing, Id consider the OBP on Lafayette or Eisenhower/Pierce first, then tackle washington. Regardless, be safe, start early and keep an eye on the sky, remember inexperienced winter hikers need to descend slower then experienced hikers so if the weather is turning dont waste time turning around.
 
Did Washington from the Cog up Ammo, 2 weeks ago. Had never done Washington in winter, but had done it in winter conditions. Spent every day for the previous few weeks checking weather reports as well as any trail reports. Canceled more than once based on wind and weather conditions that would make it an unpleasant experience. Finally decided to head up on Saturday the 1st. Both myself and my companion are experienced hikers, AMC trained leaders as well as long time trip leaders.

We believed we covered every contingency. The weather turned out great. Although, Ammo close to lakes was difficult if impossible to find and we ended up overland coming up on the back of the hut. Making our way on the Crawford Path Washington was an adventure, since there is not so much a trail as taking a bearing on the peak and heading in that direction. Snowshoes on, walking at an angle, ever vigilant about sliding down the slope, we started toward Washington.

It was a clear bright, light wind day so we were able to get up to the summit without any incident. Just as we were getting the obligatory summit pictures, the wind decided to kick it up a notch. We hurried to get off the cone and in the process my partner decided not to put on crampons when I did opting for microspikes instead. On the way down the cone, she couldn't get a grip on the hard ice/snow and starting sliding, while trying to stop her descent she twisted her knee. Now it was 3+ miles at very slow pace, after the placement of crampons on her feet.

Luckily, we were able to butt sled a portion of the Ammo (after removal of crampons). She is now going thru a phase of getting back into hiking, one small hike at a time, i.e. this weekend (Flume Gorge and Arethusa Falls) with me being the sherpa. We hope to have her well enough to go on a hut to hut x-country ski in Maine in early March. The moral of this story being that anyone get get hurt, even as prepared as possible, with many years of experience.
 
hikes-with-him said:
He is very interested in Washington...and...we were thinking Jewell trail as it is quite easy to treeline...and has BEAUTIFUL views once you hit tree line. He has never been "up there" and we were thinking where to give him the biggest "bang"...Washington is not too far once you hit treeline...and we can assess the situation once we get to that point.
Click to expand...

I’ve done the Ammo-Jewell loop a number of times in winter. The above tree line distance to Washington from the Ammo is 1.3 miles verses the above tree line distance to Washington from the Jewell trail is 2.1 miles. It’s a shorter distance above tree line traveling from the Ammo to Washington. IMO, the views from tree line on the Ammo Trail are just as good as the views at tree line from the Jewell trail. The advantages of ascending the Ammo Trail have been stated above: the “shelter” of the hut and deciding whether to bag Washington or if the weather is iffy, Monroe. Also, IMO, the Ammo is not difficult to descend providing you are wearing the proper traction.

When you get to tree line on the Ammo and choose to bag Washington, descend via the Jewell Trail. It’s only a few tenths of a mile more of hiking and the grade is much more forgiving than descending the Ammo.

Have a great hike and be safe.
Jay
 
hikerfred said:
Did Washington from the Cog up Ammo, 2 weeks ago. Had never done Washington in winter, but had done it in winter conditions. Spent every day for the previous few weeks checking weather reports as well as any trail reports. Canceled more than once based on wind and weather conditions that would make it an unpleasant experience. Finally decided to head up on Saturday the 1st. Both myself and my companion are experienced hikers, AMC trained leaders as well as long time trip leaders.

We believed we covered every contingency. The weather turned out great. Although, Ammo close to lakes was difficult if impossible to find and we ended up overland coming up on the back of the hut. Making our way on the Crawford Path Washington was an adventure, since there is not so much a trail as taking a bearing on the peak and heading in that direction. Snowshoes on, walking at an angle, ever vigilant about sliding down the slope, we started toward Washington.

It was a clear bright, light wind day so we were able to get up to the summit without any incident. Just as we were getting the obligatory summit pictures, the wind decided to kick it up a notch. We hurried to get off the cone and in the process my partner decided not to put on crampons when I did opting for microspikes instead. On the way down the cone, she couldn't get a grip on the hard ice/snow and starting sliding, while trying to stop her descent she twisted her knee. Now it was 3+ miles at very slow pace, after the placement of crampons on her feet.

Luckily, we were able to butt sled a portion of the Ammo (after removal of crampons). She is now going thru a phase of getting back into hiking, one small hike at a time, i.e. this weekend (Flume Gorge and Arethusa Falls) with me being the sherpa. We hope to have her well enough to go on a hut to hut x-country ski in Maine in early March. The moral of this story being that anyone get get hurt, even as prepared as possible, with many years of experience.
Click to expand...

I think you make another great point about the Ammo regarding ascent vs descent. It can be hard to find the trail descending in poor conditions up high, especially winter conditions with low visibility. It's easier to ascend from this perspective, you have a giant target to aim for. Going the other way isn't quite as cut and dry. If there aren't any tracks to follow, all those pretty cascades start to look the same and the trail corridor is non-existent in that area. Something to keep in mind!
 
JacobH said:
I think you make another great point about the Ammo regarding ascent vs descent. It can be hard to find the trail descending in poor conditions up high, especially winter conditions with low visibility.
Click to expand...

I'd also point out that the re-entry point into the trees on Jewell can be extremely hard to find in low visibility conditions, just in case someone was trying to weigh the pros and cons of Ammo vs. Jewell. Both can be tough.
 
hikes-with-him said:
Washington is not too far once you hit treeline...and we can assess the situation once we get to that point.
Click to expand...

Lots of great advice in this thread. Stick to what you wrote above about assessing the situation once you are at treeline. The mountain is different every time, every day, even when on a trail you've done before in winter.

Sounds like you have some good experience and knowledge. With someone's first time up there, hedge your bets and IMO go up and down Jewell. Or at the least, as Kevin et. al. mentioned, go down Jewell if ascending Ammo. There are more sketchy areas on Ammo in the upper third where one could have a slip, especially given the icy conditions this winter (that said, in the right conditions, I agree with Tim that butt-sliding down the slopes at the top of Ammo is more fun than Disney World!) In full disclosure, I have not been up Ammo since my last maintenance trip in summer but have gone up and down in winter. Jewell is safer and someone new to the mountain will not be missing out on anything by taking it.

Absolutely a crampon hike IMO (and snowshoes) and one that is beyond my comfort level in light traction.

"Keep your nose in the wind and your eyes along the skyline"
 
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