Pressie Traverse Comments and Advice Sought

Hi All,

I am planning a one day Pressie Traverse this summer and thought I would seek the advice of those experienced with them on the board.

Some specific questions I am looking for input on (but open to ALL ideas here):

North or south? Southbound has the obvious advantage of finishing on the less demanding part of the ridge but I have at least one compelling reason to go north. I'm open to either. The northward stretch from Edmands Col to Adams summit has got to be like walking through fire after that many miles. And tough in the dark. I've done Washington to Jefferson in the dark, but not beyond and that area before Adams can be sketchy. This will be a solo trip.

Avoiding leg cramps? I have a fair amount of experience with 20+ mile days both summer and winter and am not concerned as much with strength and endurance level as I am with cramping and muscle/tendon issues. I will be drinking coconut water as I am convinced it's the legendary "honeydew" of Xanadu. What do you do?

If I go north, I'm finishing on Valley Way to Appalachia. If I go south, that will be my starting trail. How about the other end?

Start times?

Let's open it up to anything related to this traverse and thanks in advance for the advice. Always grateful for the expertise of the members of this board.

BTW, I am not going for a FKT (or a SKT). I am going for a successful finish.

Thanks!

Back online at end of the weekend.

I like North->South because the south end is more forgiving on the feet and the ups and downs are less (most elevation behind you) - advantageous for tired legs and feet.

Keep on a strict schedule on the summits. I did this with a group and we ran into people we knew everywhere and got too chatty and it slowed us down.

We started at sun-up and didn't put headlamps on until the Webster-Jackson/Webster-Cliff split. This was on a July 4th weekend so there was 16+ hours of daylight.

Tim

A caveat about the following, as most know, I am not a fast hiker so if you are trailrunner take the following with that in mind.

North to South definitely, Once you hit Washington, the remaining stretch is a lot easier walking (as its trending downhill). If you are with a group you can spot a car at the Cog and have multiple bail out options if the weather, motivation or physical issues require you to get off trail. It also give you the option to skip Jackson (not a presidential) but a popular add on. Starting out on Valley way gets the first rays of the sun in the AM compared to starting at Crawfords cuts down on headlamp use. If the weather does degrade in the afternoon you still have done quite a hike as its hard to beat hiking the "rim" of the great gulf. The exposure is significantly high in the northern section and generally bad weather shows up after noon so its best to on the southern presi stetch later on. I usually end up needed a headlamp somewhere half way down Crawfords path after going past Pierce.

Nuun tabs are what I carry for electrolytes, they can be added to any water and dont have sugar. The components are alledgedly absorbed quicker than other electrolytes. They can be bought on line for far less than EMS. Unless you plan to carry a couple of gallons of coconut water all day, you need some supplemental electrolytes continuously especially if its hot. Nuun or a similiar powdered electolyte makes sense to me compared to lugging a lot of extra liquid.

There really is no need to carry lots of water up (hot weather dependent). Most tend to carry too much in the AM going up Valley Way. Carry minimimal water and tank up at Madison Hut. Most people include Mt Clay in the traverse, if so they are missing the generally most reliable spring (Greenough) between Madison and Washington. There are some seasonal springs and ponds east of Edmonds Col which have water but you may want to treat it. I usually fill my water bladder at Madison and carry water but generally wish I had stopped at the Greenough which would require a backtrack if you do the Clay loop. Generally I refill a bit at Mt Washington but just enough to get to Lake of the Clouds.

You can save some time when in sight of the cog by cutting over to the utility right of way that runs along the cog via the West side trail rather than staying on the Gulfside trail (but you miss some nice views). It is well graded and goes right to the top while Gulfside tends to meander. Seriously consider limiting your break on top of Mt Washington. Many folks end up spending far too much time there. Basically get your pcitures, fill your bottle and head out down to Lakes. Even though some consider it a tradition, its not the best thing to eat a chili dog and plenty of junk food then start hiking again. Lakes usually has snacks and soup for sale and their water is just as good as the summits. If you do this you will save at least a half hour.

Bring sunblock and deet. If its sunny you need sun block and sunglasses and even though it may not be buggy down low, some years the black flies make their last stand on the summit ridge. Not an issue if its windy but it can be bad if its calm.

The last advice is realize that you have a 1 in three chance of having great weather. Be flexible and consider moving the event by a weekend if need be. Realistically the day ar long enough for most of July into August so dont be held fast to doing it on the "longest day of the year"

Done it both N to S and S to N, if you go North you start at the Webster-Jackson trailhead (Full Presi Traverse) or the Crawford Path Trailhead across the street from the Highland Center (Regular Presi Traverse). Loved doing them both ways (yikes, that sounded kinky)....anyway like Tim and Peakbagger said North to South is easier and personally I like the views better going N to S. If you time it just right you get to see the cog crawling up the tracks coming down from Mount Clay with Mount Monroe and Lakes of the Clouds behind the train, awesome picture taking opportunity! I've tried to save it for a good weather day to enjoy the views although I did it once in the clouds and that was fun as well.

Like others have said water is a basically a non issue with the huts and you can always grab some more food on washington as well. Just go with food that you like that gives you energy and doesn't sit like a cement weight in your stomach and you'll be fine.

Below are a few of my trip reports for the Presi Traverse if you want to look at them...Have a blast!!!

North to South

South to North

Double Presi

-Chris

Raven said:

North or south?

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If N to S:
- unless the weather is bad, drop your pack at the Madison Hut for the side trip up Madison. Some will tsk-tsk and wag their finger at you and offer valuable safety advice...just smile, thank them, and do it anyway.
- after leaving Madison Hut take Gulfside to Thunderstorm Junction, then up to Adams. Slightly longer than directly up Airline, but much easier... that portion of the Gulfside Trail is almost mountain-bikeable...and the views into King Ravine are sweet.
- Waste 10 minutes on summit of Clay. It's got the best views of the trip.
- Don't fill your water bottles on Washington. If anything, empty all but one of them. Why carry extra "unnecessary" water down 1300 feet from Washington to LOC Hut. Fill up at the Hut. It tastes better there anyway. After filling my belly with water on Washington, I don't think i've ever reached for a water bottle on the trip down to the hut...it's wasted weight.
- Descending the Webster Branch of the Webster-Jackson Trail is a wet, rocky, erroded mess on its best day, and will seem 10x worse after humping 21 miles.

If S to N:
- haven't done it.

Raven said:

Avoiding leg cramps? I have a fair amount of experience with 20+ mile days both summer and winter and am not concerned as much with strength and endurance level as I am with cramping and muscle/tendon issues. I will be drinking coconut water as I am convinced it's the legendary "honeydew" of Xanadu. What do you do?

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Lots of water and salty food. Simple works fine.

Raven said:

Start times?

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For very long hikes, I envision when I would like to end, and subtract how long I think it will take. That's my starting time.

Raven said:

BTW, I am not going for a FKT (or a SKT). I am going for a successful finish.

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Welcome to the middle of the Bell Curve. The water's warm, come on in.

When are you planning on doing your traverse? If you are looking for someone to go along let me know. If it works with my schedule I may be interested. I haven't done a true Presi traverse but would have no problem with those numbers in a day.

bikehikeskifish said:

I like North->South because the south end is more forgiving on the feet and the ups and downs are less (most elevation behind you) - advantageous for tired legs and feet.

Keep on a strict schedule on the summits. I did this with a group and we ran into people we knew everywhere and got too chatty and it slowed us down.

We started at sun-up and didn't put headlamps on until the Webster-Jackson/Webster-Cliff split. This was on a July 4th weekend so there was 16+ hours of daylight.

Tim

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Thanks Tim.

Chances are it's going to be north to south for all of the good reasons (less demanding on body at end, weather concerns in afternoon, easier access to cover late in day). They really outweigh my reasons for wanting to go north so I'll plan it that way.

I won't need to worry too much about getting caught up in conversations along the way, but I can see this really eating up time and making it hard to maintain a rhythm if it happens.

I'll likely want to hit the Valley Way by about 3-4 AM and enjoy the sunrise from somewhere on Madison. I prefer starting with headlamps to finishing with them, but have no aversion to either if part of the plan - I don't need to be married to the longest day of the year and am open to almost anytime in July.

Steve Smith recently mentioned a woman who has done a Presidential traverse in 37 consecutive months, so there’s some inspiration for you.

It seems like more of a traverse to me if you take a trail directly up Madison, rather than backtracking, but maybe no one does that. I’ve certainly never tried from any angle, but that’s what I would have thought.

peakbagger said:

A caveat about the following, as most know, I am not a fast hiker so if you are trailrunner take the following with that in mind.

The exposure is significantly high in the northern section and generally bad weather shows up after noon so its best to on the southern presi stetch later on.

Nuun tabs are what I carry for electrolytes, they can be added to any water and dont have sugar. The components are alledgedly absorbed quicker than other electrolytes. They can be bought on line for far less than EMS. Unless you plan to carry a couple of gallons of coconut water all day, you need some supplemental electrolytes continuously especially if its hot. Nuun or a similiar powdered electolyte makes sense to me compared to lugging a lot of extra liquid.

There really is no need to carry lots of water up (hot weather dependent).

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Thanks PB. All good advice.

No trail runner here - I'm happy when I average 2 mph at the end of the day. Great thought on the afternoon weather in the northern pressies - I spend a fair bit of time there, but wasn't thinking about summer storms yet. I'm going to plan southbound.

I'll check out the Nuun - never tried it but will plan on something similar for electrolytes. As far as water/coconut water goes, I'd start the day with 3 liters liquid (prob 2 coconut waters to load potassum) but no more than that. I'd plan to fill at Madison, Gulfside Spring if running, Washington and/or Lakes, and Mizpah. I'll hydrate ahead of time as well.

peakbagger said:

Seriously consider limiting your break on top of Mt Washington. Many folks end up spending far too much time there. Basically get your pcitures, fill your bottle and head out down to Lakes. Even though some consider it a tradition, its not the best thing to eat a chili dog and plenty of junk food then start hiking again. Lakes usually has snacks and soup for sale and their water is just as good as the summits. If you do this you will save at least a half hour. "

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I won't plan to stay long - I lose motivation if I rest for too long - I'm better with shorter breaks.

I'll pass on the chili dog. Likely I won't go in the building at all unless I'm out of water. I also may not have a camera. I've done the traverse many times over 2 or 3 days and hiked the northern summits enough to get plenty of pics so may opt to leave the camera weight behind. I only carry it about 1 of 3 hikes most of the time now.

peakbagger said:

Bring sunblock and deet. If its sunny you need sun block and sunglasses and even though it may not be buggy down low, some years the black flies make their last stand on the summit ridge. Not an issue if its windy but it can be bad if its calm.

The last advice is realize that you have a 1 in three chance of having great weather. Be flexible and consider moving the event by a weekend if need be. Realistically the day ar long enough for most of July into August so dont be held fast to doing it on the "longest day of the year"

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Absolutes on sunblock, DEET, and sunglasses.

I also hope to do this midweek, but have enough flex to be able to wait for a good window to go so will plan a time period then pick the best looking day.

Appreciate the advice.

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions and trip reports so far.

I've started to do total mileages and elevations including Webster-Jackson and Clay - anyone have that and willing to share? I'll go through it anyway since I like to be familiar and have that info handy on a hike but having the numbers to double check my math would be nice.

You may want to have a look at my Presi Traverse FAQ ,which includes a table and a link to a spreadsheet.

The trip over Clay doesn't add any significant mileage or elevation gain. It's well worth the trip, IMO. The only thing you miss is a spring along the side of the Gulfside trail, but with Mt Washington summit and Lakes coming up you don't really need it.

Mohamed's Traverse times page should give you all the breakdowns.

Mohamed Ellozy said:

You may want to have a look at my Presi Traverse FAQ ,which includes a table and a link to a spreadsheet.

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Thanks (and to Dave) for pointing this out!

I forgot to mention this earlier... shame on me...

http://chauvinguides.com/PresiTraverse/presiescapeguide.htm

It is likely you will be slower than your regular pace by the time you are complete.

Tim

bikehikeskifish said:

I forgot to mention this earlier... shame on me...

http://chauvinguides.com/PresiTraverse/presiescapeguide.htm

It is likely you will be slower than your regular pace by the time you are complete.

Tim

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Thanks - good resource to have handy, especially for winter.

I find I am now actually always slower than my regular pace.

I'll plan for about 16+ hours realistically.

Did it many years ago staying at LOC & Mad Hut going South to North & then as a one day with several people here back in 2006 on the Solstice weekend.

Jackson is not a Presidential so for a full traverse, Jackson is not required, neither is Clay or Franklin although Clay was once in line for being renamed for R. Reagan. (may actually have been done but it hasn't caught on here)

North to South is best, being tired & going up the northern peaks much harder than being tired & heading south.

The views from Clay are nice, but IMO, it's a bit harder to go up Clay from the North than from the South where it is easier. It's a steeper climb from Sphinx and the trail is not as smooth as Gulfside (Edmands was very particular on stone placement, the part going around Clay is amongst his best work) I've been to Clay two or three times, it's has two rounded summits, I believe the northern one is the actual summit but not sure the view is much better than the South summit. it's probably easier to go to the south junction of the loop trail & double back to the South Summit. (bit of a small PUD between the two) I also prefer the view from Gulfside when it's closest to the Great Gulf headwall, if Clay has a better view, it's the difference between awesome & incredible.

In 2006, the AM was calm & still so I did the Watson Path from Valley Way. Watson was harder & the cairns are not large, it's not a route up in foggy or worse weather unless you know it well. Going up Valley Way & leaving the pack is fine, if the weather makes that idea questionable, it's probably not a good day to do the traverse.

From Memorial Day Weekend through July on a Saturday, you may be solo, but on a decent day, you wil not be alone.

Mike P. said:

Did it many years ago staying at LOC & Mad Hut going South to North & then as a one day with several people here back in 2006 on the Solstice weekend.

Jackson is not a Presidential so for a full traverse, Jackson is not required, neither is Clay or Franklin although Clay was once in line for being renamed for R. Reagan. (may actually have been done but it hasn't caught on here)

North to South is best, being tired & going up the northern peaks much harder than being tired & heading south.

The views from Clay are nice, but IMO, it's a bit harder to go up Clay from the North than from the South where it is easier. It's a steeper climb from Sphinx and the trail is not as smooth as Gulfside (Edmands was very particular on stone placement, the part going around Clay is amongst his best work) I've been to Clay two or three times, it's has two rounded summits, I believe the northern one is the actual summit but not sure the view is much better than the South summit. it's probably easier to go to the south junction of the loop trail & double back to the South Summit. (bit of a small PUD between the two) I also prefer the view from Gulfside when it's closest to the Great Gulf headwall, if Clay has a better view, it's the difference between awesome & incredible.

In 2006, the AM was calm & still so I did the Watson Path from Valley Way. Watson was harder & the cairns are not large, it's not a route up in foggy or worse weather unless you know it well. Going up Valley Way & leaving the pack is fine, if the weather makes that idea questionable, it's probably not a good day to do the traverse.

From Memorial Day Weekend through July on a Saturday, you may be solo, but on a decent day, you wil not be alone.

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Thanks Mike. I'm a big fan of the Watson Path so am considering this as a possible start - I had planned to take it this past Saturday but went up valley way instead to Madison. (The snowbridge over Snyder Brook was a thin layer so I didn't cross). There's some extra leg and foot work on that trail. And I def won't be starting on Howker Ridge - I like it but too many ups and downs for this trip. I'll keep my pack on for Madison but I won't be carrying 40 pounds either.

I agree about the trail work around Clay and near Monticello Lawn. 5 years ago, I crossed that stretch well after sundown (after a beautiful sunset on Washington) on a dark night on the way to the Perch and was very happy for the good footing. That's pride in your work!

Ideally, I'll do this on a Thursday but if it's Saturday, then hey, at least it's not a Franconia traverse right?

Thanks for the input!

Billy said:

Descending the Webster Branch of the Webster-Jackson Trail is a wet, rocky, erroded mess on its best day, and will seem 10x worse after humping 21 miles.

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Thanks Billy - after putting some thought into my plan, I agree with this and although I was originally planning Jackson and Webster, that is one of the last stretches of trail I want to come down at the end of the day. So they will likely be off the final plan.

I am still leaning toward a Watson Path start over a full Valley Way/Osgood.

I'm primarily going to focus over the next 8 weeks on hiking (by hiking), core strength and flexibility (yoga and some resistance training), and nutrition and hydration. I'll work in bigger mile days and bigger elevation days. Either way, this past weekend was a great one to be out there.

Have you done a one-day Bonds traverse before? That would be good training, although a pressie-traverse is probably about 1.5x as hard.

A couple of observations - 1) heading up from the north with more than 1 liter of fluid is excess weight. Superhydrate before you start, and then tank up at Madison hut. 2) The Watson Path is interesting, but it's steep, rough, and slower. To illustrate - when Brutus was about 3, he accompanied a group of us on a Presie traverse starting up Valley Way. They split off at Watson, while he and I continued up Valley Way. We visited for about 15 minutes at the hut with a gal very interested in Brutus, and then on to the summit. My friends, who were faster hikers, didn't arrive until 10 minutes later - rather tired and a bit fried. The take away is familiar - the shortest route is not necessarily the fastest. I've found the same is true if you start the traverse via the Pine Link - by the time you struggle to the summit of Madison, Pierce seems a helluva long way off!

Since this is your first traverse, I'd go with the conventional wisdom - go north to south, travel light, know your water sources and how much to carry between them, go up Valley Way, and avoid Clay, Jackson & Webster. Get creative on subsequent traverses. Avoid making your first an epic.

YMMV.