21 out of 31 who reached the observatory over the weekend needed assistance

http://blog.nhstateparks.org/?p=2746

This piece reveals just how important it is to be able to bring oneself to turn around when things are worse than that for which one has prepared.

I went home Friday night rather than even bother with lousy Waumbek, not because I couldn't do it (it's a rainy day mountain), but because it clearly wasn't going to be fun. Yet the leaders of whatever group these kids were from saw the forecast and decided to head up Mt. Washington? The problem with this is that those adults just didn't think. They couldn't have, because just looking at the forecast alone should have told them Saturday was just not the day to bring young kids up that mountain. They're lucky those kids were able to make it up at all without succumbing to hypothermia. Even if they didnt' realize it at the base, they clearly understood the conditions long before reaching the cone and almost certainly could have followed the trail back down the mountain.

I'm sure I'm not the only one on this venue who has seen people heading up a mountain when it was clear they should be turning around. Wrong footwear, wrong clothing, no gear, too late, whatever. If nothing else, this piece drove home for me the importance of opening my mouth when I see someone heading into a situation when if they really understood what they were getting into, they would not be doing do.


Brian

First mentioned by our own Breeze in this thread. reply#18 http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?45248-Tomorrow-above-4-thous-feet/page2 .
Have to mention the obvious,will these unprepared hikers get charged?

For the ride down the mountain and the cocoa/coffee, maybe. No real rescue here, right?

I've crossed the knife edge of Mt. Katahdin 4 times - twice with a Boy Scout group - and on both of those occasions I probably shouldn't have been up there. Looking at the faces of the boys in this picture at the Summit Building, I couldn't help recall those two trips across the Knife Edge Trail. In retrospect, it could be argued that our troop leaders made foolish, irresponsible decisions - but overcoming the challenges of the trips proved to play a formative role in my interest in hiking.

The first was as a 12-year old first-year Boy Scout on my very first Boy Scout hiking trip. The prior day I had hiked The Owl - the first real mountain most of us had ever hiked. The final approach of which brought a few of my troop to tears -my memory refuses to recall if I was one of the weak. Black flies followed us to Chimney Pond and chased us up the Dudley Trail to Pamola Peak. Surprisingly, the warm, Father's Day-weekend air was thick with the tortuous beasts even at 4,900 ft. We quickly made our way to Baxter Peak and trudged down the Hunt Trail. I couldn't even carry my pack for the last few miles, I was so tired - but I learned to respect the older scouts who carried it for me and to return the favor later in life when hiking with folks who need a hand. Was I too young, inexperienced, and unconditioned for such a lengthy excursion? Almost certainly. Was it the hike that hooked me on hiking and made Mt. Katahdin my all-time-favorite peak? Definitely.

The second trip across Knife's Edge was a little less poetic. 6 or so scouts and leaders sitting on their backpacks, huddled under ponchos, listening to thunder rumbling around them and watching the fog of the clouds surrounding them light up intermittently. Stupid? Yup. But I survived... In fact we all did. And I'd like to think we all learned from the experience. We learned what it was like to be "in" a thundercloud and what it felt like to have the earth shake under you. I learned to respect the elements and to be better prepared. Part of preparing is knowing when not to hike - or when to turn around. Sometimes it takes overcoming adversity such as the ones the wet young boys faced on their final approach of the summit building to give you the experience to make the right decision the next time.

Obviously, trip leaders should already have made these mistakes and learned these lessons in situations when they making decisions for folks other than themselves (and in the case of this story, a group of young, inexperienced "hikers"). Trip leaders should be aware of the challenges and difficulties of a hike - make these clear to the group - and make the tough call to not allow unprepared members on a trip. I'm glad I wasn't excluded from my first trip to the peak of Katahdin and I'm glad I lived to tell the tale of surviving that thunderstorm. I'd bet those boys are glad they went on that trip, slogged and shivered their way to the top of Mt. Washington - and that for many of them it will be the last time they wear jeans into the Whites or fail to bring a poncho.

I'm just trying to figure out when "too late" is.

I read the blog entry - it's a good read - well-written and interesting. But as to the "why do people hike up Washington in bad weather" - I think it's obvious. The summit is a refuge, with warm shelter, food, telephones, and best of all - a ride down if necessary. To a certain element of the population, that makes the endeavor an acceptable risk. I think the legal profession refers to these types of situations as an 'attractive nuisance'.

I think most of the members of this board view a hike up Washington in its totality, and know that the descent is nearly always riskier than the ascent. But, many do not hold similar views of risk, as what happened in the blog seems like a regular occurrence.

I remember one trip to Washington, way back when I was a teenager in a camp group. Things got from bad to worse as we passed over Boott Spur, and we took refuge at the summit building, a shivering and shaken bunch.

While this did teach me valuable lessons that I remember today, I still question the choices made to continue onward from the scrub cover into the Alpine zone on such a day. At one point, we had a rope tied around all members of our group so we could stick together, as we could not see each other well.

Things worked out that time, but could have gone horribly wrong just as easily. My own belief is that adults need to stress the safe hiking essentials and show their children when it is time to call it a day and head back. The mountain will still be there on a better day.

NeoAkela said:

The mountain will still be there on a better day.

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"The mountain will be there next year ... make sure you are."

Kevin Rooney said:

and best of all - a ride down if necessary.

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I think it's dangerous to assume this, as there is no guarantee of a ride down. The cog can be full, especially if you are trying to cram an extra 31 people in! And where did you park? Unless you have your own transportation pre-arranged, or call for a rescue, you could be out of luck. And correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the auto road deny your passage up the mountain if conditions are bad?

TDawg said:

For the ride down the mountain and the cocoa/coffee, maybe. No real rescue here, right?

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You are legally most likely correct TDawg. However as a parent those blog photos are frighting. Bringing kids up in those conditions without proper gear borders on child neglect imho.If something happened to one of those kids would insurance even cover it? Just my general 2cents.[not directed towards the TDawg]
Contrast the preparation some parents take on their trips with their kids. I know of at least one such parent on this sight who could spend the night out in winter with their kids if need be due to adequate preparation.
Maybe they should close the facilities up top to make the area safer for the average person who is inadvertently dragged up there?The whole "maybe if there is nothing up there, people will try not to go anymore" theory.

Tom Rankin said:

And correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the auto road deny your passage up the mountain if conditions are bad?

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Yes - See Breeze's post on this exact subject.

Tim

Tom Rankin said:

I think it's dangerous to assume this, as there is no guarantee of a ride down. The cog can be full, especially if you are trying to cram an extra 31 people in! And where did you park? Unless you have your own transportation pre-arranged, or call for a rescue, you could be out of luck. And correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the auto road deny your passage up the mountain if conditions are bad?

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Yes, it is dangerous to make an assumption of services, but I think people do make assumptions and then start scrambling when things degenerate.

At first, I was looking at the whole fines and enforcement thing from a personal, what-do-I-do-? standpoint; but more and more, I'm seeing it statistically, that there are a quickly growing number of people getting into the sport. It reminds me of the instance of this in the 60s & 70s, with the "Loving it to death" problems of litter and over-use. It seems the culture has taken steps to protect the mountain, but the hikers are still at risk, like little children wandering off in the cold. I think this is driving the response by the State, and, increasingly, the people of New Hampshire, who seem to have had enough. I'd guess there will be quite an adequate sample-set of data points in the coming years.

Education, enforcement, what? I'd hate to see more bureaucracy (as with resort skiing, with waivers, infrastructure, etc.), but eventually, some large number of kids and kittens will eat it and there will be a hue and cry.

Certainly, I've been where the kids in that photo were; there but for education and experience go I.

Tom Rankin said:

I think it's dangerous to assume this, as there is no guarantee of a ride down. The cog can be full, especially if you are trying to cram an extra 31 people in! And where did you park? Unless you have your own transportation pre-arranged, or call for a rescue, you could be out of luck. And correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the auto road deny your passage up the mountain if conditions are bad?

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Absolutely.

The MWAR can and does close to vehicle traffic when weather conditions dictate that action. We were open only to 4300 ' on Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and I expect for the next several days as well.

On Saturday 6/2, the Cog was not operating due to icing on the summit and winds in excess of 70mph.


The "Ride Down" on Saturday happened in 3 parts-- NHSP staff loaded hikers in a 4WD vehicle in full chains and brought them down to 6 mile park, the hikers had to hoof on foot down the gravel ( mud quagmire) 5 mile to the parking area at 4300', and MW Stage van picked them up there to bring them down to Pinkham.

They were charged the full fare for the Hiker Shuttle.

NHF&G was not involved. MOST THANKFULLY.

Breeze

This reminds me of a personal experience when my age was a single digit number. I hiked Mt. Washington with my parents in the late winter. We made the summit and were allowed in WHOM to warm up for a bit as it was bitterly cold even though we lucked out with the weather. Everything else was closed that I recall. We descended after a bit and here I am, able to talk about it decades later. At the time it was no big deal (though my parents might have felt otherwise). Now, looking back, I realize how foolish and woefully unprepared we were. Of course, looking back, I realize we were woefully unprepared for most of our many family hikes. They say the Whites spare most fools, right? Well, that was us.

Tom Rankin said:

...I think it's dangerous to assume this, as there is no guarantee of a ride down.

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Yes and no. While the AR and the Cog operate on a space available basis, and only when conditions permit, I doubt very much that if you presented yourself to a NH ranger on the summit, told him/her you were in an emergency situation and unable to hike down on your own, that you would be told "Sorry - can't help. You're on your own".

It's that implicit expectation of assistance that 'enables' some hikers to attempt the summit.

NH Tramper said:

This reminds me of a personal experience when my age was a single digit number. I hiked Mt. Washington with my parents in the late winter. We made the summit and were allowed in WHOM to warm up for a bit as it was bitterly cold even though we lucked out with the weather. Everything else was closed that I recall. We descended after a bit and here I am, able to talk about it decades later. At the time it was no big deal (though my parents might have felt otherwise). Now, looking back, I realize how foolish and woefully unprepared we were. Of course, looking back, I realize we were woefully unprepared for most of our many family hikes. They say the Whites spare most fools, right? Well, that was us.

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One of the best responses I have read for this topic (including many other threads of this nature), thanks for posting NH Tramper.
Spend enough time in the mountains and eventually you will have an epic, and if you are lucky, you will be spared. For some people, like the boys in the above photo, the epic happens at a young age and they learn a valuable lesson. For others, the lesson comes later in life, like the parents/leaders from the above referenced trip. Some require more than one epic before they learn. Still others may hike for years, notching their belts with the likes of Washington, Rainier, Aconcagua, Denali, and others, and still they make unbelievably poor decisions, escaping only through luck or statistics. I have seen it first hand.

I am not above it. And I venture to say none of the rest of you are either. I'd bet the ranch that even the folks commenting in this very thread have "gotten lucky," as several have admitted. If you don't think that's true, either you don't have enough perspective to realize how close to the edge you were, or you haven't been hiking long enough. Give it time. Or hike only in the middle of summer with perfect weather no farther than 2 miles from a road with a group of 6, half of whom are WFR's, the other half Sherpas. Sounds awesome.

In the mean time, I propose a different take on these stories. Insead of "21 more idiots got their butts saved," how about, "21 people learned some valuable lessons about the nature of the mountains in NH, lessons that we all learned at one time or another. Glad the price they paid was small."

We were all beginners once. And in my opinion there is a lot of value in keeping a Beginner's Mind.

Kevin Rooney said:

But as to the "why do people hike up Washington in bad weather" - I think it's obvious. The summit is a refuge, with warm shelter, food, telephones, and best of all - a ride down if necessary. To a certain element of the population, that makes the endeavor an acceptable risk.

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Agreed 100%.
Many are unaware of how bad conditions can get on the upper mountain and become focused on the summit as a safe refuge. They may simply never have been out in such conditions before. It was so nice at the start...

I think most of the members of this board view a hike up Washington in its totality, and know that the descent is nearly always riskier than the ascent. But, many do not hold similar views of risk, as what happened in the blog seems like a regular occurrence.

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We as a group of (generally) serious hikers, are generally aware of these issues. Many casual hikers simply do not think about them or unaware of them. For example, when I invited a friend along on a Franconia Ridge hike and listed the gear that one should bring in case of less that ideal conditions, her response was "Why be so pessimistic?".

Projecting our thought processes on non-serious hikers simply does not reflect their mind-set.

Doug

Kevin Rooney said:

Yes and no. While the AR and the Cog operate on a space available basis, and only when conditions permit, I doubt very much that if you presented yourself to a NH ranger on the summit, told him/her you were in an emergency situation and unable to hike down on your own, that you would be told "Sorry - can't help. You're on your own".

It's that implicit expectation of assistance that 'enables' some hikers to attempt the summit.

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No they would not, but they are not there 24 / 7. What happens if you arrive when they are not there? I also doubt the staff in the research buildings would turn you away, if you banged loud and long enough, but can they handle 31 kids?

I hope as Doug says, we the serious hikers, can try to get the message out that Mount Washington is NOT a safe place, NOT a sure ride down, NOT a mountain to be trifled with. These people offer silent testimony to those facts.

hikerbrian said:

One of the best responses I have read for this topic (including many other threads of this nature), thanks for posting NH Tramper.
Spend enough time in the mountains and eventually you will have an epic, and if you are lucky, you will be spared. For some people, like the boys in the above photo, the epic happens at a young age and they learn a valuable lesson. For others, the lesson comes later in life, like the parents/leaders from the above referenced trip. Some require more than one epic before they learn. Still others may hike for years, notching their belts with the likes of Washington, Rainier, Aconcagua, Denali, and others, and still they make unbelievably poor decisions, escaping only through luck or statistics. I have seen it first hand.

I am not above it. And I venture to say none of the rest of you are either. I'd bet the ranch that even the folks commenting in this very thread have "gotten lucky," as several have admitted. If you don't think that's true, either you don't have enough perspective to realize how close to the edge you were, or you haven't been hiking long enough. Give it time. Or hike only in the middle of summer with perfect weather no farther than 2 miles from a road with a group of 6, half of whom are WFR's, the other half Sherpas. Sounds awesome.

In the mean time, I propose a different take on these stories. Insead of "21 more idiots got their butts saved," how about, "21 people learned some valuable lessons about the nature of the mountains in NH, lessons that we all learned at one time or another. Glad the price they paid was small."

We were all beginners once. And in my opinion there is a lot of value in keeping a Beginner's Mind.

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I agree. It's when you become too comfortable that the unexpected seems to happen. As for the 31 kids....I would be less than impressed as a parent to learn that the group leaders put my child in that situation. If they planned on it ahead of time and brought the appropriate gear it may be a different story knowing the risks, but from looking at the one picture they clearly didn't look prepared. Was that one kid crying? He may never want to leave his XBox again.

Very interesting information and conversation to me, having been up there on Saturday. While I have experienced similar wind and visibility conditions on Lions Head Trail (but not full on rain), we were prepared with plenty of layers, but learned that very good waterproof and insulating gloves are required on a day like Saturday. Being soaked and wet with 17 degree wind chill approaching the summit was indeed a tough experience.

While I always do diligence to make sure my gear is appropriate for a hike like Washington, I have to admit that I expected the summit building to be open on this hike, and that was probably a huge overlook on our part. When my brother expressed concern of his hands getting a little numb as we approached the summit, and the wind and chill was actually sucking the energy right from him, that thought of it being closed came to me so quickly, as it was a possibility, that I stopped us right there, and told my brother exactly what lied ahead in the next steps, and what we needed to do in the worst-case scenario(doors closed). If it was closed, we would have had to add additional layers, switch gloves, make quick adjustments in the doorway out of the wind, and descend as quickly as possible - which would have continued to drain us standing still and would have made the descent very difficult. Had the regular temp dipped below 32 for very long, anyone, in any equipment, would have been in danger (being wet). Had we seen any signs other than pellets it was to be called off.

I learn something each time on Mt. Washington - the thought of the precipitation changing to snow like it did in the days following our trip in the wet conditions was actually a frightening thought, and my brother and I discussed that an individual may not even have enough time to make a decision in that situation if all of a sudden you were encased in ice.

I added a YouTube video of my ascent on my recent blog post, it has a few clips from the trip showing the actual conditions, it also includes a clip of us walking out of the summit building on our way back down.

Interesting to know that the individuals who got a ride down were left with 5 miles to hike and were charged for the ride. That is acceptable, and seems adequate to help them learn the reality of the mountain, while ensuring they are safely off of the summit.