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Thread: Another Lost hiker rescue on Washington

  1. #1
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    Another Lost hiker rescue on Washington

    http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/News...er_061112.html

    The berlin daily sun has some additional information in todays paper(6/12) but it now requires a free subscription. The major additional information was that the two hikers met on an "online site" (not named) and that the individual that drove home didnt think he had done anything wrong leaving his partner until he was part way home.

    I have noticed an increasing amount of indian/south asian hikers in the whites over last few the years and welcome the diversity, yet I dont see a lot of participation on the various hiker boards. I am curious if this new group of hikers may not be targetted well by the education efforts for hikers currently in place? On the other hand it just may be that in any given population there is a small percentage of novice hikers that will get in trouble due to lack of education and given the increase in diversity on the trails there just will be more incidents where that small percentage happen to be of a different ethnic orgin.

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    Senior Member Red Oak's Avatar
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    Wow! Two people meet up to hike from the east side.One takes off on the other.Gets back to Boston, then decides to help? Give him the uncool award of the summer so far.Glad the other young bro is ok.Maybe its time to more tightly control who climbs up...
    ne67/n.e.h.h.31/100w

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    Senior Member erugs's Avatar
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    That's a strange story, indeed. I can see why one might question whether it is a cultural thing, but without more information that can't be determined. I remember hearing once that men, in general, were not good at hiking "together." Did I understand that the men had commuted north together or were they in separate vehicles? Then there is the statement that one of them was a grad student. I chuckled at that as it seemed a disconnect in the thought process had certainly taken place.
    Ellen

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    Member ow2010's Avatar
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    I had a feeling we'd be reading about this one.

    I guess it was Kochman who we ran into on the Glen Boulder Trail. Not long after passing the Avalanche Ski Trail intersection, we ran into Kochman who was looking for an Indian man he had given a ride up. We told him we hadn't seen anyone and he went to look for the man down the ski trail. Kochman caught up to us again at Glen Boulder. He said he hadn't found the man...I asked if they had been hiking together and he said he didn't really know the other man, just that he had given him a ride. He said the other man had no map...it really got strange when Kochman said that it was too soon to start a search and that he [Kochman] was going to continue on to Mt. Isolation. I asked him if the other man was also headed to Isolation and he said yes. We last saw Kochman near the Davis Path junction.

    My brother and I both thought it was very strange that Kochman would knowingly abandon an unprepared hiker...and now to read that he drove home to Boston!

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    "It's all about me!" again....(not a complete surprise)

    I clearly recall a thread on VFTT re: a newbie woman hiker who was left by a group of VFTT hikers. I believe the reason was because she was was having difficulty keeping up, and I seem to also recall that she was upset about it and posted. A discussion followed regarding "should you or should you not leave your fellow hiker behind when you start off together on a group hike?"

    As is our norm, we were divided in our opinions. I'm sure some will remember this rather intense discussion.

    I do commend him for at least calling for help. Better late than never.

    It's great that this person was found and suffered no dire consequences.
    Last edited by Maddy; 06-12-2012 at 10:25 AM.

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    Senior Member DougPaul's Avatar
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    Slower hikers being left behind by faster hikers happens all the time and may or may not irresponsible (on the part of the faster hikers) depending on the details. However, stranding your (car) passenger by driving off without him is, IMO, above and beyond the call of irresponsibility... And, of course, this isn't the first time that it has happened...

    FWIW, climbers from certain countries have developed reputations for different "group cohesion behavior patterns" when climbing in the high Himalayas. However, these are generally experienced climbers--this incident appears to involve at least one beginner.

    Doug

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    Senior Member carla's Avatar
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    yes, the abandonment at the end of the hike is the worst part IMO

    My hiking partner and I often make the trip up to NH together knowing that we hike at very different speeds. We know what each of our paces is, and we both agree to let the other "hike her own hike," so nobody gets frustrated either waiting, or being pressured to move faster. We don't do any very technical hikes, so we feel safe in this practice, for the most part. We see it as win-win.

    And/but/so we do careful planning to make sure that we end up back at the car at the same time or arrange one to pick up the other at a different trailhead either on foot or in the car.

    The fact that this guy made it all the way back to Boston without the second hiker is really quite callous.


    Quote Originally Posted by DougPaul View Post
    Slower hikers being left behind by faster hikers happens all the time and may or may not irresponsible (on the part of the faster hikers) depending on the details. However, stranding your (car) passenger by driving off without him is, IMO, above and beyond the call of irresponsibility... And, of course, this isn't the first time that it has happened...

    FWIW, climbers from certain countries have developed reputations for different "group cohesion behavior patterns" when climbing in the high Himalayas. However, these are generally experienced climbers--this incident appears to involve at least one beginner.

    Doug
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    Senior Member erugs's Avatar
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    When I read that the rescued man was okay except for a few cuts and bruises, I thought: That could be said about most of us after a hike.
    Ellen

    Volunteer Maintainer: East Pond Trail

    "Through winter-time we call on spring/And through the spring on summer call/And when abounding hedges ring/Declare that winter's best of all/And after that there's nothing good/Because the spring-time has not come... William Butler Yeats

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    Senior Member marnof's Avatar
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    This is a very bizarre story, perhaps since we're probably not hearing the entire backstory. I do believe that we are all ultimately responsible for our own safety. But the question remains, who goes on an Isolation hike without a map or other critical items unless they're depending on a partner to guide them? Why would the other person ditch the totally ill-equipped person in the woods? That borders on abandonment. Very strange.

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    Senior Member hikerbrian's Avatar
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    Well, there's a flip side: some casual aquaintance whom you've met through a friend of a friend at a party hears you're going to the Whites this weekend and asks for a ride, he'll share gas. Ok, you think, I'd planned on going solo, but if this dude wants to chip in for gas, fine. Turns out the dude's not too good with the outdoorsy thing, is it your responsibility to abandon your trip in order to babysit the newb? Depends on a LOT of factors.

    I remember the discussion you're referring to, Maddy, and I'm sure we could have that heated discussion all over again here... I'll leave it with the ironic and fitting, "All blanket statements are flawed."
    Sure. Why not.

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    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikerbrian View Post
    Turns out the dude's not too good with the outdoorsy thing, is it your responsibility to abandon your trip in order to babysit the newb? ."
    IMHO: Yes, unless you specifically had that precise conversation and both agreed, and maybe even then, too. It's still a hike and you get to leave knowing you did the right thing. My name's not Earl, but Karma casts a wide net.
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    Senior Member marnof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikerbrian View Post
    ...asks for a ride, he'll share gas. Ok, you think, I'd planned on going solo, but if this dude wants to chip in for gas, fine.
    That would imply a ride back to Boston is owed, at least.

    Fish and Game Sgt. Wayne Saunders (in the Conway Daily Sun) takes it one step further:

    There is an important lesson to take from this incident, according to Saunders: Experienced hikers need to look out for partners new to the woods. "You've got to hike slower with them," he said, even if it costs the summit.

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    Senior Member erugs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikerbrian View Post
    Well, there's a flip side: some casual aquaintance whom you've met through a friend of a friend at a party hears you're going to the Whites this weekend and asks for a ride, he'll share gas. Ok, you think, I'd planned on going solo, but if this dude wants to chip in for gas, fine. Turns out the dude's not too good with the outdoorsy thing, is it your responsibility to abandon your trip in order to babysit the newb? Depends on a LOT of factors.

    I remember the discussion you're referring to, Maddy, and I'm sure we could have that heated discussion all over again here... I'll leave it with the ironic and fitting, "All blanket statements are flawed."
    Two thoughts come up for me. 1) How many here didn't see the earlier "heated" discussion and would find it of interest? and 2) In the words of Ron Pladgett in his poem, "How To Be Perfect" there is this line: "Expect society to be defective."
    Ellen

    Volunteer Maintainer: East Pond Trail

    "Through winter-time we call on spring/And through the spring on summer call/And when abounding hedges ring/Declare that winter's best of all/And after that there's nothing good/Because the spring-time has not come... William Butler Yeats

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    This isn't that complicated. If you give a guy a ride to the Whites, and you know he is depending on you for a ride back, you don't go home without him. You don't have to hike with him, but you don't drive off and leave him behind.

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    Senior Member marnof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul K View Post
    This isn't that complicated. If you give a guy a ride to the Whites, and you know he is depending on you for a ride back, you don't go home without him. You don't have to hike with him, but you don't drive off and leave him behind.
    Now what if he's depending on you to find a way back to the road?

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