Bushwackers BEWARE: A charged rescue!
- Thread starter bandana4me
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Mike P.
Well-known member
Not really bushwhacking, he went down a trail that was closed. I'm not familar with how the trail follows the stream as I've done Isolation from Route 16 & only did some bushwhacking on my winter trip.
There's no signs or rules that say bushwhacking is bad, other than the general stay on trail bit that bushwhacking obviously doesn't follow. Here there were signs and notices that the trail was closed & at least as I read the article, those signs were ignored.
I suspect though if you require SAR while going up or down the closed section of the Mt. Cabot Trail, you'll likely get a bill.
There's no signs or rules that say bushwhacking is bad, other than the general stay on trail bit that bushwhacking obviously doesn't follow. Here there were signs and notices that the trail was closed & at least as I read the article, those signs were ignored.
I suspect though if you require SAR while going up or down the closed section of the Mt. Cabot Trail, you'll likely get a bill.
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REK
Member
I have no problems with this one at all.
Bob
Bob
Nessmuk
Active member
The story begins with "An experienced New Hampshire man...".
And: "discovered the trail was impassable, he tried to bushwhack around it through dense spruce forest and became disoriented", he then called 911 to give officials his GPS coordinates to get help.
No indication he was in any kind of medical distress.
Experienced? GPS? Disoriented?
Come on, give me a break Mr. experienced man. The charge for "rescue" is justified.
And: "discovered the trail was impassable, he tried to bushwhack around it through dense spruce forest and became disoriented", he then called 911 to give officials his GPS coordinates to get help.
No indication he was in any kind of medical distress.
Experienced? GPS? Disoriented?
Come on, give me a break Mr. experienced man. The charge for "rescue" is justified.
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erugs
New member
Perhaps Mr. Experienced will come on here and 'splain himself, although the article did state that he had no objections to paying a fine.
Little Rickie
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RoySwkr
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>> Carpio, an experienced hiker, set out from Crawford Notch about 5:30 a.m. Sunday to the summit of 4,000-foot Isolation Mountain, Abrams said.
If this is true, returning Rocky Branch Trail is peculiar
And his problem is not that he was bushwhacking but that he apparently didn't know how
- with that early start he should have had plenty of time to bypass the closed sections
If this is true, returning Rocky Branch Trail is peculiar
And his problem is not that he was bushwhacking but that he apparently didn't know how
- with that early start he should have had plenty of time to bypass the closed sections
grouseking
Well-known member
>> Carpio, an experienced hiker, set out from Crawford Notch about 5:30 a.m. Sunday to the summit of 4,000-foot Isolation Mountain, Abrams said.
If this is true, returning Rocky Branch Trail is peculiar
And his problem is not that he was bushwhacking but that he apparently didn't know how
I was thinking the same thing...but what can you expect from the newspapers or other media?
Another thing I didn't realize was that Rocky Branch was closed? I've seen several reports hiking up to Isolation using that trail.
The trail is currently closed from the end of Rocky Branch Road (Jericho Road) to Rocky Branch Shelter #2. From route 16 to the Isolation Trail and onto the Davis Path, it is open.
Tim
Tim
IQuest
New member
I wonder why he decided to call for help rather than just follow the river to Jericho Rd (or return the way he came)? It was 4am, he was "experienced", he knew his exact GPS cordinates.....
erugs
New member
I was thinking the same thing, so I guess there is "fodder" here, but we may never know more than what we do now. I was thinking his "experience" came by realizing there were mountains and trails? But that's just me being sarcastic.
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Little Rickie
New member
His experience said he needed help. The man knew his limits and did the right thing. Got billed for the man hours it took to find and walk him out. How much would it cost to look for a dead man and who would pay it? Seems fair to me.
Nessmuk
Active member
Maybe we don't know the whole story, but surely from the published account this sounds like another case of: "I'm tired and don't want to figure this out by myself. I'll just call 911 and life will be easy, even if I have to pay". At 4:00 AM when he called 911 it was just getting first light on a warm sunny day. I would like an explanation of why he couldn't find his way out by himself.
To abuse 911, to put his "rescuers" at potential risk in hurrying into a situation of unknown severity, or at the very least creating an inconvenience to distract them from other more important jobs (including such as a real rescue call that might have come in) should result in a hefty fine, not just a bill for conversation officers' time. Speaking as a trained and active SAR unit officer, we all are alert and more than willingly respond with great vigor to true emergency calls and even to those lost in the woods by mistake, but If this story is true as told I might have had a few choice words for this guy after the fact.
Mike P.
Well-known member
As a luddite, you'll have to excuse my stupidity....
With your exact GPS coordinates, would that have told him if he was on course? Assuming he was heading down a different trailhead, might he not know the waypoint for the Jericho Road trailhead? Maybe he thought we was going to come out along the Dry River drainage back in C-Notch
I'd call myself pretty experienced but areas or trails not typically on the way to a 4K peak might confuse me, (Percy peaks?) Same with the Catskill Sections I have left & likely will not do as a Bushwhack to a 3529 or 3508 spot with a log or canister but no view sounds silly to a view junkie like me.
I don't know the trail south of the Route 16 section or Rocky branch are their other drainages he might have got confused with. I've followed brooks a couple of times, Flume Slide up once & was probably more lucky than good as it was early in my "Whites Education" The other was Franconia Brook on way back from Owl's Head. Hard to not know this goes by Franconia Falls & brings you to Lincoln Woods if you have a map & have been in the area a few times to get up Owl's Head &/or the Bonds.
Difference betwen knowledge of areas Vs. general trail knowledge & experience. One may know the six (or more) ways to get off Washington & which ways are steep or prone to avalanche or which go to the Cog vs. 16. The other, if you get put down in the middle of the Smokies, Rockies or Cascades (with gear, don't think quotes from "On Deadly Ground") & they will use past experience, tools & methods to figure out where they are & how to get out.
Not sure I'd expect the newspaper reporter (or the vast number of readers who don't hike) to know the difference. (or care)
With your exact GPS coordinates, would that have told him if he was on course? Assuming he was heading down a different trailhead, might he not know the waypoint for the Jericho Road trailhead? Maybe he thought we was going to come out along the Dry River drainage back in C-Notch
I'd call myself pretty experienced but areas or trails not typically on the way to a 4K peak might confuse me, (Percy peaks?) Same with the Catskill Sections I have left & likely will not do as a Bushwhack to a 3529 or 3508 spot with a log or canister but no view sounds silly to a view junkie like me.
I don't know the trail south of the Route 16 section or Rocky branch are their other drainages he might have got confused with. I've followed brooks a couple of times, Flume Slide up once & was probably more lucky than good as it was early in my "Whites Education" The other was Franconia Brook on way back from Owl's Head. Hard to not know this goes by Franconia Falls & brings you to Lincoln Woods if you have a map & have been in the area a few times to get up Owl's Head &/or the Bonds.
Difference betwen knowledge of areas Vs. general trail knowledge & experience. One may know the six (or more) ways to get off Washington & which ways are steep or prone to avalanche or which go to the Cog vs. 16. The other, if you get put down in the middle of the Smokies, Rockies or Cascades (with gear, don't think quotes from "On Deadly Ground") & they will use past experience, tools & methods to figure out where they are & how to get out.
Not sure I'd expect the newspaper reporter (or the vast number of readers who don't hike) to know the difference. (or care)
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Nessmuk
Active member
And that is the point. In my mind, someone who is "experienced", will have done the essential pre-trip planning and have the mental and physical tools to accomplish what they set out to do. There is no mention of him having a map and compass, nor the skill of how to use them, so we cannot make any assumption there other than that he was "experienced". But he did have a GPS.. for what purpose? I consider myself an experienced instructor of wilderness navigation, but if you blindfolded me or anyone else and transported us to some random unknown location in the woods, what good are GPS coordinates alone with nothing else to go on? "Hey, I have a GPS, I can't get lost." You may know the numerical coordinates with great precision exactly where you stand, but so what if you did not pay attention both to how you got there, and how to proceed ahead.
On the other hand, if they get there under own own power from a trailhead, particularly if having done some map study and planning as any experienced person would do, then map-compass should be sufficient, and certainly with association of a working GPS, there should be no problem in self-extraction of a healthy uninjured person.
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Little Rickie
New member
una_dogger
Well-known member
Sometimes getting a little lost is a good teacher, if one can work their way out of it.
Experienced hiker in what sense ? Reading the limited details in the article, a few thoughts came to my mind - and they are not intended to be overly critical or insensitive.
I've learned the most when I've lost the trail and had to find it again on my own.
Without a cell phone he may have been forced to exercise his experience and found his way out. Perhaps he had exercised all of his skill - will never know.
Sounds like there was no medical emergency here, weather was fine and he had already made it through the night so why the sudden sense urgency? Sounds like he was already "out of the woods" on many levels.
Glad to see he appreciated all efforts and had no problem with paying .
Experienced hiker in what sense ? Reading the limited details in the article, a few thoughts came to my mind - and they are not intended to be overly critical or insensitive.
I've learned the most when I've lost the trail and had to find it again on my own.
Without a cell phone he may have been forced to exercise his experience and found his way out. Perhaps he had exercised all of his skill - will never know.
Sounds like there was no medical emergency here, weather was fine and he had already made it through the night so why the sudden sense urgency? Sounds like he was already "out of the woods" on many levels.
Glad to see he appreciated all efforts and had no problem with paying .
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Last weekend was a hot one, its easy to get dehydrated in hot weather and one of the first things to go is rational thought. After a long day of hiking and making some bad decisions, he may have finally decided that it was time to call for help before he got in more serious trouble.
Of course this is setting a precedent that NH F&G now offers a "guided" hike out to those inclined to have more money than sense.
Of course this is setting a precedent that NH F&G now offers a "guided" hike out to those inclined to have more money than sense.
una_dogger
Well-known member
I was thinking along the same lines.
Anyone can get in over their head and knowing when to call it is something any hiker could face.
Being a NH native and underestimating the damage Irene could do to a close a trail, choosing to take it regardless was frankly, not using good judgement. It is one thing to plan a bushwacking route, knowing you may face blowdowns etc....it's altogether something different to intend to take a trail - find out its been closed due to a storm that caused widespread damage across the North East, and to proceed.
Just my 0.02
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sardog1
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Judge not ... lest ye be lost and be judged also. ;-)
It seems appropriate to step in here and suggest to folks contemplating such adventures that a visit to the VFTT Pathfinders group might be in order first. You'll see some familiar names there, with some pretty useful info for would-be bushwhackers.
It seems appropriate to step in here and suggest to folks contemplating such adventures that a visit to the VFTT Pathfinders group might be in order first. You'll see some familiar names there, with some pretty useful info for would-be bushwhackers.
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