Pemi Loop prep

Hello,
Two of us are going out for our 1st pemi loop this weekend. We decided on clockwise and are shooting for 14 hours or better, starting very early and jogging when possible. I've run the Wapack Trail, 21 miles in 5 hours so I'm hoping this is doable. We got a babysitter for the day and want to be home by bedtime for a 3 year old. I've been doing a lot of backpacking lately and Gig is training for the JFK 50.
Thanks to all who've written TR's previously. (LRiz, Metsky, blacknblue, etc.) That helped us plan, even if you all went CCW.
The weather is supposed to be great, no rain forecasted. Here's what we plan to bring.

me
Small camelback, 50 oz of h2o
Golite rain/wind jacket
6 "cliff"/energy bars
2 Snickers
extra socks
headlamp with fresh batteries
running waistpack with 16oz Gatorade
Gatorade powder
8 Gu's
hiking poles
map
mini medical kit

Gig
Larger camelback, 2.5L h20
wind jacket
6 bars
2 snickers
gummy bears
extra socks
bug spray
sun screen
TP
Ziplock bag for trash
8 Gu's
headlamp
Vitiamin I
iodine21
wallet/keys
duct tape

I'm hoping it's enough water. Anything else?
Also, hoping this might help others on their first trip. The hardest part was deciding how much food and drink to take. Thanks.

A friend send me this message. Thought I'd post because it was helpful.

Saw your post on VFTT - I'm not a member (just a lurker) so thought I'd write you offline. First of all, good luck on your pemi loop!

I've done 3 Pemi loops - and am planning a fourth for this coming Monday. I've gone both directions - and if you're going for speed, I'd agree that clockwise is the way to go.
In my opinion, CCW is the way to go if you want to do the add-on peaks (W Bond, N Twin, Galehead etc) - while you are still fresh in the first half.

Jeff and I managed 12 hours on a clockwise loop with no add-ons - generally just hiking fast - only jogging/running some of the flats and runnable downhills. You strike me as fast, so I'm sure you'll make your time. I'm sure you know this already - but don't get discouraged if you fall off your pace in the middle third of the loop - we've always finished the first third ahead of schedule, fallen way behind on the middle third (Garfield ridge between Lafayette and S Twin), and made up all our time on the final third. That's true in either direction.

I'd say you're bringing everything you need (from the girl who calls vitamin i and duct tape = a "lightweight first aid kit").
The only thing that jumped out at me was your water - if you're only planning to resupply at the hut. I've traveled with a full 3 L - and replenished fully at galehead hut and it got me around without running out - but only just barely. I tend not to be a big water drinker (i.e. I often finish good size hikes with a half full bladder). But when it's hot and sunny - those climbs will sap you and you water... The last time we went (CCW) - the two guys I was with drank little in the morning (1.5L) , so they only carried 2 liters from Galehead hut and they both ran out half way across Franconia Ridge - and i had to ration my water with them.

That said if you're going clockwise - you can get to galehead before the heat of the day - and the last half in that direction is less taxing, so you may be fine on 1.5L and a gatorade - and there's plenty of water on the way down if you need to replenish.

Just a few of my thoughts for what they are worth - take them or leave them...

Good luck!
Karine

In summer, I'd bring water bottles or bladders with three liter capacity per person. You've got a long stretch from fairly low on Osseo until Garfield Pond where you wont' find reliable water without a significant detour (Liberty Spring or Greenleaf hut [edit: I forgot the seep on Lafayette only partway down to the hut]). Same again from Galehead hut to partway down Bondcliff (or detour to Guyot spring - not too bad but at that point in the day it wont' be fun).
If I know where water is available, I generally carry only about a liter until I get to the last water before a dry stretch. No point hauling extra water uphill if there will be water when you get there.


I don't see a lot of solid food (none for Gig), mostly sugar. For a 14-hour endeavor you might want to include a stop for a real meal or two, with starch, protein, and fats. Depends how you train, what your'e used to, and what you ate the night before, but eating sugar all day usually doesn't work out well for me.
Also, a warning about Cliff bars: they're high in fiber. If that's a normal part of your diet, fine, but beware of sudden increases in daily fiber while hiking above treeline.

Since you're planning on starting in the dark, carry two headlamps each. They're light. Use extra light for extra speed, or just carry as emergency backup, your choice.

Map is good, map & compass (for each person) are better.

[ edit2: I'm feeling a little smug after reading the trip report ]

Here's what ended up working for me:
Breakfast: 1/2 whole wheat bagel and PB, banana, 20oz of Tang, 12 oz water, one Gu
On the trail: 4 and a half energy bars (variety, honey stinger, cliff, odwalla), 4 Gu's, one Snickers bar, hunk of bread at hut, some gummy bears.
To drink, pre-hut I had 50 oz of water and 20oz of Gatorade. At the hut, 40 oz of Gatorade. Post hut. 20 more oz of Gatorade (I did share it though, so less) and about 2/3 of my bladder.
Felt great the whole way. If it had been hotter, I might have wished for more water prehut, but it was fine. We were off the ridge, even off Garfield before the heat, and I don't sweat a ton. I'll try to do a TR too.

(PS. Gig brought and ate energy bars too, not just sugar.)

nartreb said:

You've got a long stretch from fairly low on Osseo until Garfield Pond where you wont' find reliable water without a significant detour (Liberty Spring or Greenleaf hut)

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For future reference: I've never seen Lafayette Spring dry. Some might still regard that as significant, but a very small % of all the way down to Greenleaf Hut.

Looking forward to the report if you get the time.

Interesting to see what worked food-wise. I keep trying different things with food on longer hikes. I did a Pemi + 4 (Galehead, North Twin, Zealand and West Bond) on Wednesday. My current thinking is that at some point past 20 miles, I just burn what I eat and have little in the way of reserves and the kind of "junk" calories I usually avoid work well. Snickers and other candy bars seem perfect for the last few uphill stretches.

I carried 3 liters of water, and re-filled them at Galehead Hut. That was on an ideal weather day (70, no humidity), and I consumed all 6 liters. Food-wise, solid foods don't agree with me during that high rate of activity, so I mostly just did Gu and peanut M&Ms and other things like that. Food consumption seems to vary by person, though. I ate a big breakfast (as usual), and that tides me over pretty nicely.

I want to echo what some of the others have written, but with other focuses as well. Sadly, I don't know your name

Firstly, it feels like you are carrying way too little. Fanny packs are for Waumbek. You want day packs so you can carry adequate quantities of food, water, and emergency gear.

Water. Three liters! You also need the capacity to access more, which means a pump if you're carrying Camelback (iodine could work, but yuck)--and bear in mind, you don't want to put Gatoraid into a Camelback, only into a water bottle. I would suggest taking one water bottle each for the Gatoraid and having just water in your Camelbacks.

Food. To be honest, your food does not up to the task at the moment, and it could cause you real problems. A good rule of thumb is at least half of your calories should come from carbohydrates, and at least another quarter from protein. All the sugar and goo and crap you are bringing is a lousy, quick hit that will bring your blood sugar levels up and down very quickly and it is quite likely, indeed very likely, that if you only ate what was on that list, you would find the engine didn't have any energy in it long before you were done.

Maybe it's just me, and reasonable people can disagree, but I think you want real food, and a lot of it. A dry waterbottle full of trail mix, a good sandwich of something you enjoy, Triscuits and cheese, Fig Newtons (excellent for carbs! I think they're just called "Newtons" now), cold pizza is good, and a tiny, TINY amount of candy. The Triscuits will give you salt. If you don't bring them, be sure to bring something else salty that you will eat routinely, otherwise you may your knees starting to feel creaky as you get dehydrated over the course of the day.

I guess I am saying don't be afraid to carry weight. Maybe you won't be able to jog as well, but this is a LOOOOONG hike with a lot of elevation gain, and what you really want is to take care of your body so it can go the distance.

I've run three marathons and I take a couple of goo packets and sip a bit of water along the route, but it's not the same at all.

But again, reasonable people can disagree!


Brian

B the Hiker said:

Food. To be honest, your food does not up to the task at the moment, and it could cause you real problems. A good rule of thumb is at least half of your calories should come from carbohydrates, and at least another quarter from protein. All the sugar and goo and crap you are bringing is a lousy, quick hit that will bring your blood sugar levels up and down very quickly and it is quite likely, indeed very likely, that if you only ate what was on that list, you would find the engine didn't have any energy in it long before you were done.

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I'm from the same school and eat reasonably normal food while hiking. Too much sugar gives me a stomach ache... It is also worth including some fat in your food (long term energy). Muscles run on a combination of fat and carbohydrates--long distance training increases the percentage of fat utilized by one's muscles. Nuts are a good mix of all 3 components.

Maybe it's just me, and reasonable people can disagree, but I think you want real food, and a lot of it. A dry waterbottle full of trail mix, a good sandwich of something you enjoy, Triscuits and cheese, Fig Newtons (excellent for carbs! I think they're just called "Newtons" now), cold pizza is good, and a tiny, TINY amount of candy. The Triscuits will give you salt. If you don't bring them, be sure to bring something else salty that you will eat routinely, otherwise you may your knees starting to feel creaky as you get dehydrated over the course of the day.

Click to expand...

Might be worth including nuts as mentioned above (~150 cal/oz). They can be salted.

Note that the primary component of electrolyte drinks is salt. You don't want everything so salted that you OD on salt, but you will want enough to replace your losses in sweat and urine. Carrying both water and electrolyte drink and both salted and non-salted food allows one to adjust as needed. (Salt or powdered electrolyte mix can always be added as you go.)

Doug

I really haven't had a chance to write a TR, but want to briefly write how things went for me.

Generally GREAT! The pemi loop was awesome and my food/ hydration was perfect. Most of my inspiration for what to bring for food came from one of Lriz's reports. (Thank you. Thank you!) I was never really low on energy or thirsty. Another friend of ours who is also training for the JFK 50 and I are doing it again in August and I don't plan to change much from how I did it the first time.

Here is part of an email I sent a friend who asked how it went the day after:

"...I think the Pemi is easier than the Wapack, at least easier than running it... I ran the Wapack Trail Race end to end 3 times [before my daughter was born] and was killer sore after for days, couldn't wait to be done at the end. Pemi- not sore at all, felt like I could've kept running that Wilderness Trail at the end. (We ran 5 minutes walked 2 the whole way out.)

We had an awesome time. Started at 4:10 am and finished at 5:00. There was No One on the whole Franconia Ridge! When does that happen?! I drank 40 oz of Gatorade at the hut and felt great climbing S. Twin. Maybe it was all those Gu's also. I had 5 total. And 4 and a half energy bars and one Snickers. Snickers at 9:00 AM. When else can you do that! I think Guyot is my favorite place. It's only my 2nd time there and last time it was winter. The Bonds were easy being already on the ridge. We ran/walked everything downhill after the Bonds. I loved it."

FWIW: I did bring a small Nalgene of trail mix and salty snacks and never ate any of it. We only took one 20-25 minute break at the hut, so no sandwich or cheese and crackers on this hike.

I think there are different ways of doing something and that different things work for different hikers. You have to know yourself and in the end, you have to trust your instincts/experience on food and water and what has worked for you in training... And if it doesn't work out, it's just a good learning experience for next time. This is just what worked for me.

Doing my first solo Pemi loop Aug 2nd. Ive done alot of multi day peeks but this is the first "big one" Nice to read all the tips and advice and looking forward to knocking this off my list. Congrats on your finish and cant wait to read about it!