Bad news from the Cog railway

After seeing a posting by Manuel on trip reports that now the Cog railway is asking hikers not to park at the lower lot on the left I called them. She was very angry sounding when I asked her about hiker parking at that lower lot. She said the ONLY hiker parking is at Crawford notch......there is no parking along the road because of the groomed snowmobile trail, none at the Ammo trailhead, and NONE at all at the Base road I really do hate the Cog railway, they've never been hiker friendly and this is another strike against them in my book. I would never ride that black smoke belching, coal vomiting behemoth!

Cog lament

Gee, a private landowner exercising their wishes as to how they operate.
Why is it up to the cog to be 'hiker friendly'? So what if they don't give two hoots about hikers looking for convenient trailhead parking.

I don't know why the USFS doesn't plow the USFS Ammonosuc lot. But I can guess. $$ and the desire to make access to the high Presidentials less convenient in the winter.

Cog Railway and hikers = apples and oranges

DougG said:

Cog Railway and hikers = apples and oranges

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Well.....stinking, dirty, rotted, soot coated, nasty, crab apples anyway.

- darren

That made me laugh, Darren

Doug, you are right in that they don't HAVE to be hiker-friendly . . . but wouldn't it just make for a better world if we were all nice when we didn't have to be every once in a while?

sli74

Posted by Doug

So what if they don't give two hoots about hikers looking for convenient trailhead parking

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You're right of course......they do have to pay to plow that enormous lot but they also depend on revenue to survive. I don't see who it hurts by letting dayhikers park in their lower lot and charge a few bucks for parking. Maybe they think hikers are stealing their business by actually walking up the mountain, imagine that.....Stinky rotted soot coated nasty crab apples indeed!

Word.
So we can't park at the Cog or at Ammo? Man, that makes for a long approach from Crawford Path.

It always kills me the people who ride that thing. We did a one day presi traverse this summer and coming down off of Clay and up Washington the Cog was in full effect. The day was crystal clear and warm on all of the summits. You could see every peak in the Whites and beyond, and all the tourists who were riding the cog could do was stare at us. It was uncanny. The most clear and warm day I have ever seen in the Presi's and instead of taking in the scenery they were dumbfounded by a group of people who chose to walk up the mountains. These are the same people who ride jet ski's and snowmobiles and call themselves 'outdoorsy'. And the smoke just murders me. Instead of clean mountain air, there's nothing better than a mouth and lung full of smoke.

So lets see... In a previous thread...
Base Road CLOSED in Winter


Base road is CLOSED in winter and for the specific use of Snowmobiles only. I do believe there is a parking lot somewhere just past the mount Washington hotel and the town houses entrances. There is a gate. This might be why she mentions being towed.

So.. keep in mind... in winter... BASE ROAD IS CLOSED

I believe that was me in reference to ones worries of being towed from base Road. Yup... I was right... HE HE HEEEEEEEEEE

Anyway... Definately Sucks. I say the NOISY Snowmobilers get off their arses and try hiking on for size... but thats unlikely. So Until that day comes.. we be screwed. Damn the man!

friendly

I think its unfair to rail the Cog about being hiker friendly. I think its even more unfair to make fun of people for riding the Cog. Maybe the reason they where staring at you, is they could never do what you where doing and where amazed that you where up there under your own steam. Take it as a compliment and stop being so mean spirited towards people you dont even know.
There are many places to hike in the Whites, you do not need to rely on the Cog to help you get there. They have a right to do what they want on there land. Besides if they find this site and read your comments, how is that going to foster future realtions between hikers and the Cog owners?

Ditto Seema!!

I think the Cog people--or at least the woman Jim spoke with--are the ones being mean spirited here. They have humungous plowed parking lots; why can't they let hikers park there? I would gladly pay a daily fee... True, it's "their land," but that land just happens to be on the highest mountain in the northeast, so of course hikers are going to be drawn to it. Perhaps this is all a matter of liability?

It's very strange, though, because on 12/18 they were very accommodating about letting our party of 6 (4 vehicles) park in the lower lot. They only requested that we not park there overnight.

Ah well... guess it'll be back to the good 'ol days of doing Washington and Monroe from either Pinkham or Crawford Notch.

... that black smoke belching, coal vomiting behemoth!

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Where are those Earth First guys when you really need them!

Doc McPeak said:

Where are those Earth First guys when you really need them!

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They choked on the fumes from the Smog Railway and passed out cold....

Can't just sit and listen without adding this.......

It seems to me that I have to agree with Sierra!

There are some folks that can only enjoy the beauty of the mountains from the stinkin' train. Some of those folks are also grand avocates to the preservation of the natural areas and would be dismayed to hear all your sputterings against them just because they are unable (for whatever reasons) to HIKE! Hiking is not for everyone.

You are all well aware of what happens when someone who isn't really a hiker gets out there on the mountain and can't get back!!

So let's just chill a bit and really appreciate that not everyone is a hiker.

If EVERYONE was a hiker then just think about the conditions we would see on the trails and summits!

I actually enjoy the challenges of the added distances. There are plenty of other places to visit for the days when I only have a few miles in my legs!

Hey look I hear what you and Sierra are saying and god forbid anything every happen to me that would prevent me from being mobile, let alone be able to hike. However, anyone who has spent a summer day on or near Mt. Washington knows that while there are those that can't hike the mountain on the summit, there are plenty that can and don't. And that's fine, not everyone wants to hike or should hike, I just maintain that something like the cog has no place in a wilderness setting. I don't like the auto road either. I just believe that if you want to stand on top of a mountain, you need to get yourself up it. Granite Sports magazine had a great feature about parapalegics climbing in the Whites, truly inspirational stuff. There are those who drive up Mt. Washington, slap a sticker on their car and think they accomplished something, and I don't care how I'm perceived by saying this, it irks me.

I hope that we inspire those that see us hiking to do likewise, but the attitudes and personalities one often encounters while taking advantage of the summit amenities (one likable perk to the summit buildings, another being the observatory) often makes me think the opposite: that the mountain is a novelty, and often taken lightly.

There's a parking lot on the RIGHT side of the road that goes up to the cog railway, not far beyond the road to Jefferson Notch. Is that one closed, too, or is that the lot everyone's talking about?

Who owns Base Road?

Now I'm even more confused. I thought Base Road was a state road. If so, how does the Cog have the right to forbid parking on the side of the road, regardless of who plows it?

If it is a state road, or if the Forest Service owns it, then all taxpayers should have use of it. Where does Cog property begin?

If the Cog owns the Base Road, then I defend their rights of private property while despising their attitude toward hikers. Stinkyfeet may have nailed it; perhaps it is yet another symptom of the cancer of the world...trial lawyers. Perhaps the Cog fears slip-n-fall lawyers.

If the Cog does not own the road, then something is wrong with this situation.

Jim, nice view of Eisenhower from Crawford Path on the Mt Washington Observatory website, nice composition.

Raymond said:

There's a parking lot on the RIGHT side of the road that goes up to the cog railway, not far beyond the road to Jefferson Notch. Is that one closed, too, or is that the lot everyone's talking about?

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If you are talking about the USFS Ammonoosuc parking lot, apparently it is not being plowed this winter and thus is not a place to park.

-dave-

truepatriot09 !

I agree with you.
But I really don't think of the Mt Washington as a "wilderness setting".
Wilderness to me wouldn't have trails and maps and lots of hikers.

One other thing!
I still like it up there and hope to see you on the trails!

Happy New Year!!

Inge

Whoever mentioned liability/overaggressive attorneys hit it on the nose - if I were operating the Cog, it would only make sense to discourage hiking... all it takes is one slip and fall from the wrong person on your property to run up tens of thousands in litigation fees, or generate some overblown newspaper article about how someone died climbing up the Ammo because the Cog was open this Winter for a change.

Having said this, I think any of us would be willing to pay a parking fee to subsidize the cost of them plowing their lot, and happy to sign a liability waiver saying they're not responsible for what happens to me or my car. Worst case, anyone know if they'll let you park there if you pony up the full $25 for a C(sm)og ticket?

I think the silliest thing about all of this is the USFS not plowing the Ammo lot - the DEC is fairly efficient at plowing Catskills and ADK lots here in NY. If the reason is to "discourage" use of the outdoors that's ludicrous - glad to see our tax dollars at work!

Matter of Accesibilty and Perspective

The White Mountain National Forest..."Land Of Many Uses".
Not all Forested and Mountainess areas in the U.S. are designated in this
manner.My understanding is that the Whites is an area of Multiuse governed and facilitated by Governmental Regulation via participating in public input,
paying your taxes,and voting for the right people.A unique privilege that comes with unique responsibilities; tolerance,cooperation,compromise, and respect to name a few. Being a hiker, climber, and skier I have never been a fan of the Cog. I will say that recently the Cog has been making some effort to clean up their act by possibly eliminating coal burning.Somewhat of an effort as a member of the White Mt. Community to cooperate and compromise.Not long ago there was no plowing on the Base road and Mt. Clinton Road,making doing Washington and or S. Presies in winter a much more serious endeavor.For future use of this area it is important as outdoor users we keep our perspective of the unique priviliges we have in the Whites.
Treating the people at the Cog with respect is of utmost importance.For those of you that have hiked in Baxter or the ADK in the winter or summer you can relate to this parking situation at the Cog as a minor issue.

I think the lawsuit issue is far fetched - yes it could happen of course, but has AMC, RMC or lowes store ever been sued? I am actually not sure, but I don't think so? I am going to go out on a limb here and say the majority of hikers/climbers in the winter are the type of people that wouldn't consider this type of legal action. We understand the risk and do what we do for fun.

While I do support the right of the cog to not allow the parking I also disagree with it. I think they are being downright spiteful. I have also called them - once in early november and the women was pleasant and she said it shouldn't be a problem parking there. I called about a month later and the attitute changed and she said - no parking and you might get towed. This sparked my thread about parking there.

Do they actaully own the land their tracks are on all the way up the mountain?

either way - The situation sucks and I guess they don't want to make money from the hikers.



Yea - there are other places to go - but this is prime location with access to jeff, wash, clay, monroe, plus from what I hear the ammo is a pristine cramponing climb. I was planning to hit in late jan and am now ticked that I can't for the crazy reason as no parking in an already plowed lot that from what i hear is not even coming close to filling up. This irkes me. They plow the road for the train, but won't evn consider letting hikers park there.

Is it worth getting a petition or something signed pleading the case with the cog? I am sure they are reasonble people and if our side was given, they might be persuaded??

I would love to hike in from crawfrod path, tent it, etc.. But I think I speak for all time is limited for these trips. Some weekends I only have one day to hike and need to make the most of it.