ice ax training

I'm looking for an ice ax training class. Any suggestions for a class in the near future? thanks.

What for? Hiking? Snow climbing? Ice climbing? (The boundaries can be fuzzy or a single route can have elements from more than one.)

For hiking, basic ice axe usage should be covered in any winter hiking and mountaineering course.

For ice climbing: usage should be covered in any ice climbing course or instruction.

Snow climbing usage can be covered under either or both.

There is an old thread (2010) with lots of info on the topic: http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthre...-ve-practice&highlight=arrest+theory+practice

There is more info in http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?15140-ice-axe-technique including a description of axe technique (summarized from Chouinard) in post #21.

Doug

Check with the AMC. AT one time they had a winter course and they took you into Tuckerman Ravive wear you practiced use of ice axe. It was offered on a weekend. They might still offer it. It was listed as "Winter Mountain Safety".

I bet you could take a class with someone from IME in No Conway and they could show you the ropes. A nice private lesson might be worth the investment.

EMS sponsors classes in Crawford Notch out of North Conway. Also check Acadia Mtn Guides http://www.acadiamountainguides.com/instruction/katahdin.html

Thanks for the information, folks. It's for hiking and requirement on some AMC winter hikes. I'll check out the vftt links as well (tried to search vftt with no results - maybe due to my misspell of ax <axe>). I've been watching youtube videos and I really wonder about the effectiveness of this piece of equipment to arrest falls without impaling oneself! One video guy said he has practiced with the device with over 1000 falls/slides - something I suspect would be necessary for effective use.

BethW said:

I'm looking for an ice ax training class. Any suggestions for a class in the near future? thanks.

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FYI: Vbulletin software does not allow searching for words that are 3 characters or less in length. But you can Google VFTT and see some old threads.

Here is the Google Advanced Search Page, where you can specify limiting the search to http://vftt.org.

Both the Boston and the New Hampshire have courses. The Boston chapter offered two last year. They're called "Above Treeline Workshops" and will be posted in the HB trip listings. NH Chapter has them at Gunstock at the end of the ski season.


Brian

BethW said:

I've been watching youtube videos and I really wonder about the effectiveness of this piece of equipment to arrest falls without impaling oneself! One video guy said he has practiced with the device with over 1000 falls/slides - something I suspect would be necessary for effective use.

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Ice axes have three sharp points, any of which can injure or kill you.

On the other hand, an axe can be used to cut steps (often neglected these days...) or be used to stabilize you on steep terrain. And if you do fall, it is the best tool short of a rope for stopping your fall.

Training can reduce your chance of injury from the axe and teach you to use the axe more effectively when needed. I don't think you really need 1000 repetitions to learn to use it effectively--you just need enough practice to feel comfortable with the techniques. And in a fall, a quick sloppy arrest can be more effective than a slow textbook arrest. (It is far easier to stop before you have picked up speed than after.)

Doug

Beth, while waiting to take a course, see if you can pick up a copy of 'Mountaineering - The Freedom of the Hills'. Wonderful source of information regarding all sorts of hiking and climbing information, including a very usesful section section on use of ice axes with some nice drawings to illustrate what is being described in the text.

Alan

Peakbagr said:

Beth, while waiting to take a course, see if you can pick up a copy of 'Mountaineering - The Freedom of the Hills'. Wonderful source of information regarding all sorts of hiking and climbing information, including a very usesful section section on use of ice axes with some nice drawings to illustrate what is being described in the text.

Alan

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Good suggestion. In fact I would go so far as to say skip the course and go with a friend to a good spot and just practice, bringing along a copy of the aforementioned passage. An instructor can coach you and tell you you're doing it wrong but so can a friend who's watching and working on the technique themselves. Plus it is nice to have someone hold your legs while you get ready for the on your back, head-first slide which is a little unnerving. Maybe save the $$ and use it towards something like an advanced crampon technique workshop. Unless taking a course is mandatory???

"Tom, I have Chouinard's but forgot about it. Thanks.
A good way to practice self arrest is to find a nice steep sledding hill where people have turned the snow into a slippery slope. The wet slope will freeze into a nice practice area at night. Look for slopes with good runouts and wear slippery rain jacket and pants.
Start facedown, feet downhill, proceeding with face up, feet down. Get your rollover technique down and then start working on head firsts.
Start lower on the hill to build up less velocity and work your way up. When you're comfortable with each, you can begin with a running start to simulate an arrest at higher speeds. With a safe runout, even if you screwup, all that happens is you get wet. You might eventually practice with boot crampons to see what happens if you inadvertently use the soles of your boots to help slow you down. Be sure your pockets are empty first as the slope will look like a yard sale. "

"Freedom" is a great book. Less comprehensive, but very focused, is Chouinard's "Climbing Ice", if you can find a copy. Everything about ice axes is in there.

For practice, the biggest challenge may be finding a good place. You need a steep, open slope of packed snow, with no obstacles, and a nice flat runout at the bottom. Ideally also, it should be close to the road, so you don't spend all your practice time hiking in to it. That's not easy to find. Ski areas are ideal, but you'd have to get permission from area Management, which might not be that easy. Let us all know if you find a good place to practice!

I've found a course in early January through info here - so thanks again. I'll read "Mountaineering - The Freedom of the Hills", kindle version so I hope I won't miss to much via kindle - love the title! I'd prefer to do this through AMC but the end of season is a few months too late. Obviously I hope never to have to depend this tool in an emergency situation and hope the training is focused on not making mistakes in the first place ...

BethW said:

I'm looking for an ice ax training class. Any suggestions for a class in the near future? thanks.

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Beth, I took a mountaineering class years ago in NZ. Learning to use an ice axe was one of the first things we did. It does take practice, but after a few tries, you should be able to fling yourself down a slope and stop yourself fairly readily. The trick is to do it before you get going too fast, which happens quickly, and keep your feet up, so you don't catch a crampon and cartwheel down the hill. Easier said than done, but not impossibly hard.

However, I disagree with the "learn it from a friend" approach recommended above. That assumes he/she actually knows what they are doing and how would you know that if you know nothing to start with?

TomD said:

Beth, I took a mountaineering class years ago in NZ. Learning to use an ice axe was one of the first things we did. It does take practice, but after a few tries, you should be able to fling yourself down a slope and stop yourself fairly readily. The trick is to do it before you get going too fast, which happens quickly, and keep your feet up, so you don't catch a crampon and cartwheel down the hill. Easier said than done, but not impossibly hard.

However, I disagree with the "learn it from a friend" approach recommended above. That assumes he/she actually knows what they are doing and how would you know that if you know nothing to start with?

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I don't mean to thread drift since Beth has reiterated the desire to take a course. I've taken a 5 day mountaineering course as well and the points the guides made I could easily point out as I walked back upslope watching other people work on self-arrest, but it certainly helped having read Freedom... cover to cover beforehand. Self-arrest is not rocket science. If you're in head first on your stomach and you have no clue what you're doing (read: haven't spent 30 min reading Freedom or looked it up on youtube) and throw your axe in front of yourself instead of off to the side, it's faaaairly easy to spot and critique. Finer points (like flexed arms at < 90 degrees, close to the core) also become intuitive after just a few iterations. There is an assumed base-level of knowledge, you're not starting with nothing--I hope. You're not learning it from a friend, you're taking the initiative and learning it yourself--just getting critique from a friend.

Beth...I am happy you are taking the course, most especially after reading Doug's opening statement.."your ice ax can kill you." I never thought of it that way but he is right. It is all about practice but a good instructor should be able to point out all the little mistakes that can be critical. Good luck!

I took the AMC course. At the time it was called "Winter Mountain Skills II" and involved going up into Tuckerman Ravine and learning how to self-arrest (as well as crampon technique and other goodies). Instruction as well as practicum: after being taught how to recover from each type of fall, we would throw ourselves down a snow slope in each orientation combination of head & feet first, prone & supine, and attempt arrest from that position using what we'd just learned. Each position requires a different move. It was very educational and a lot of fun, too. It included meals and lodging at Pinkham. It was a good course.

Looks like this may be the current version, I recommend calling and asking about the details:
http://activities.outdoors.org/search/index.cfm/action/details/id/63985

Components of instruction include use of crampons, use of the ice axe, glissading, self-arrest, ice climbing, snow climbing, snow & ice anchors, avalanche awareness and an ascent of Mt. Washington.

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DougPaul said:

Ice axes have three sharp points, any of which can injure or kill you.

On the other hand, an axe can be used to cut steps (often neglected these days...) or be used to stabilize you on steep terrain. And if you do fall, it is the best tool short of a rope for stopping your fall.

Doug

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I gave up on the rope. I found it too difficult to lasso a passing tree or boulder while sliding down a steep slope at a high rate of speed.

Wait... did I misunderstand?




-Steve

I would take a course, I taught myself using Evon's book as well as Freedom of the Hills, but the learning curve is great. Personally, I prefer hiring a private guide for a one on one session. In one day you can get what would take mulitple days in a group. Going one on one you can ask anything you want when you want and focus on your needs without distraction. When I was learning to ice climb, I went with a private guide ( after my first leader fall) and what I learned from him in two days, saved me alot in both time and mistakes teaching myself.

OUCH! $707!!!! For members! I'd have to do some pretty fast talking to my hubby so that's out. Looks like a great course though.

MichaelJ said:

I took the AMC course. At the time it was called "Winter Mountain Skills II" and involved going up into Tuckerman Ravine and learning how to self-arrest (as well as crampon technique and other goodies). Instruction as well as practicum: after being taught how to recover from each type of fall, we would throw ourselves down a snow slope in each orientation combination of head & feet first, prone & supine, and attempt arrest from that position using what we'd just learned. Each position requires a different move. It was very educational and a lot of fun, too. It included meals and lodging at Pinkham. It was a good course.

Looks like this may be the current version, I recommend calling and asking about the details:
http://activities.outdoors.org/search/index.cfm/action/details/id/63985

Click to expand...