REI Changes Its Warranty Policy

Trail Bandit said:

My experience with the LL Bean Outlet Store in Concord has been very good. I had a LL Bean jacket of unknown age on which the plastic zipper had died. I took it back to the store because of the published warranty and not because the jacket owed me anything. The jacket was perfect, except for the crappy plastic zipper. The brass ones are much better. The sales clerk tried to just give me any new jacket in the store but I wanted mine fixed. They sent it off to wherever they fix stuff and it came back to me in a few weeks with a new plastic zipper. .

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Interesting, because this was exactly the problem with my rainjacket, the zippers on LL Bean stuff don't seem to last. They never once mentioned they would replace the zipper and said they would exchange it only if I also brought in the liner that came with it. I have no idea what I did with the liner since it was years ago that I bought it and I don't need an insulated raincoat, that's why I have the Gore-tex shells. They said there was nothing I could do until that time, so I took the jacket and left. I will never buy another item with a zipper on it from them as a result. I'd have been happy if they just replaced the zipper since the rest of the jacket is still fine.

Perhaps places like REI and LLBean have been victims of their own success, in terms of an extremely liberal return policy. I don't put EMS in that category because I've never had much luck with them repairing/replacing defective items, so now I buy only items which I have no expectation of ever returning, and nearly always on sale at a steep discount.

I heard that LLBean was going to get back into selling serious outdoor clothing, like jackets. At one time they had a line of backcountry clothing that was first tier. I have a 3-ply Goretex from them that's superior to my NF Kichatna, and the Kichatna was considered the best many years ago. I realize that with the advent of softshell people tend to use those more now, but I figured out a layering system many years ago built around 3-ply Goretex hardshells, and when it's really nasty it what I trust.

I think it's reasonable, really. You would have a whole year to test something out and if you didn't like it, then return it. That gives a year to see how something performs, fits, works in every season and condition--surely that it enough, right? I never quite understood how people could use something for 5 years and then, when it's worn out or broken, return it. It just never seemed like a business model that was sustainable, and I guess they (REI) are now finding that it's not. There are so many sales at REI, all the time that it's pretty easy to get what you want at a semi-reasonable price, and then return it in a year if you don't like it for whatever reason. Seems to make sense.

I could not fathom using an item for a year and then returning it because I didn't like it or it didn't fit. That seems incomprehensible to me.

That is true, but you'd have to define a year. My 0° bag only gets used for 3 months out of a year and my 40° bag only gets used 3 months out of a year, same thing with the tents I have. So if it fails in year 2, after 3 months of occasional use, I'm SOL?

"You have one year from purchase to return or exchange any item you're not satisfied with..."

It makes no mention about strictly fit or form, so I also have to include function in the warranty change. Don't get me wrong, I don't often return gear, but lately it seems like the quality of gear has gone downhill compared to just a few years ago. I am completely against people milking the system, but one year seems too short. I'd like to see the customer service people have more of a say in it to weed out the riffraff. I see it all the time with other companies, they will honor a warranty once they evaluate the item in question and it does not violate their use policy.

dug said:

I could not fathom using an item for a year and then returning it because I didn't like it or it didn't fit. That seems incomprehensible to me.

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=carla I think it's reasonable, really. You would have a whole year to test something out and if you didn't like it, then return it. That gives a year to see how something performs, fits, works in every season and condition--surely that it enough, right? I never quite understood how people could use something for 5 years and then, when it's worn out or broken, return it. It just never seemed like a business model that was sustainable, and I guess they (REI) are now finding that it's not. There are so many sales at REI, all the time that it's pretty easy to get what you want at a semi-reasonable price, and then return it in a year if you don't like it for whatever reason. Seems to make sense.

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It's a shame to wear something down to the bare bones, use and abuse it over time, and then march in, head held high, and tell them you are dissatisfied with said item. I knew someone who hiked the LT and then returned his hiking boots because he wanted new ones. He bragged about doing this. Mega dittos to "incomprehensible". It's taking advantage of companies that really make an effort to do right by us. I always believe what goes around comes around. Karma...sooner or later we really are the heirs to our actions.

I have never been happy with the REI premium that we have to pay and I do not like that items on sale do not count toward the "dividend" at the end of the year. I have never been able to bring myself to return a product after some heavy use just because I was disappointed.

We live near Boston and are fortunate to be able to go to Hilton's Tent City. The gear they carry is outstanding, their prices are usually 10-20% less than REI, and the staff is knowledgeable and has been great at steering me toward what I really need, even if it is less expensive that what I came in for. The return policy is not great: return in unused condition with original packaging within 30 days. But I think that they operate on pretty slim margins, and I would rather help out a local business than giving my money to an entity that is basically a big box outdoor gear shop.

carla said:

I think it's reasonable, really. You would have a whole year to test something out and if you didn't like it, then return it. That gives a year to see how something performs, fits, works in every season and condition--surely that it enough, right? I never quite understood how people could use something for 5 years and then, when it's worn out or broken, return it. It just never seemed like a business model that was sustainable, and I guess they (REI) are now finding that it's not. There are so many sales at REI, all the time that it's pretty easy to get what you want at a semi-reasonable price, and then return it in a year if you don't like it for whatever reason. Seems to make sense.

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I am with you on this. One year IMO is more than enough time. Lets face it it's Outdoor gear and it is subjected to use. Yes Manufacturer's defects should be honored but worn out gear or I simply don't like it is lame. IMO the consumer is in the position where they should be doing their research and take a part in the responsibility of the purchase to begin with. If you screw up and don't get the perfect thing the first time around suck it up. There is a fine market on slightly used gear. Except some trial and error as part of the game. As far as REI's policy changing it does not surprise me. Why do you think EMS is having such difficulties. Their policy at one point was even more liberal than the one REI is changing now. Unfortunately there is a small part of the consumer base out there that are trolls and IMO they are the ones to blame for creating the BS.

If anyone in Worcester decides to stop going to REI, check out New England Backpacker. I buy ALL of my gear there, even if I can get it cheaper elsewhere. The guys that own and run that place are awesome, have great advice, and choose really spectacular gear.

I will always go local. Local music store and not Guitar Center; New England Backpacker over REI; mom and pop diner over franchise. I've never been disappointed - when someone owns their own business, they try to earn your visit through satisfaction, not through some legalese guarantee.

REI, LL Bean

REI: When I purchased my GPS from REI a few weeks ago, I had a long conversation with the clerk, during which I mentioned my zero experience with GPS, and what if I tried it out in the field, and couldn't get the hang of it, could I return it? He explained the return policy, and that if it was used at all and then returned, it would end up being sold as "used"...

LL Bean: Have a fleece jacket from LL Bean that is close to 20 years old. Recently the zipper went bad, and I called a couple local places that do garment repairs to see how much they would charge to replace the zipper. Both said around $30, but one told me that it was most likely the slide was worn out, and replacing just the slide would only be $10. When I brought it in and showed it to her, she pointed out it was from LL Bean, and if I sent it back, they would repair/replace it. I told her that after close to 20 years of wear, LL Bean didn't owe me anything, and I'd be happy to pay $10 for a new slide to keep it going for a few more years... She replaced the slide, and it is fine...

TomK

I have never been happy with the REI premium that we have to pay and I do not like that items on sale do not count toward the "dividend" at the end of the year. I have never been able to bring myself to return a product after some heavy use just because I was disappointed.

We live near Boston and are fortunate to be able to go to Hilton's Tent City. The gear they carry is outstanding, their prices are usually 10-20% less than REI, and the staff is knowledgeable and has been great at steering me toward what I really need, even if it is less expensive that what I came in for. The return policy is not great: return in unused condition with original packaging within 30 days. But I think that they operate on pretty slim margins, and I would rather help out a local business than giving my money to an entity that is basically a big box outdoor gear shop.

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What premium are we paying? Seriously, I have no idea. I might be paying for something I am not aware of. I love my dividend. Use the REI VISA all year for everything I buy and I just got a nice Thule bike rack for my Outback, a new sleeping bag, and nice mattress. I got my PLB with my dividend last year and several other good items.

REI return policy made the front page of the Wall Street Journal today. Online article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424127887324549004579068991226997928.html

"Chad Thomas, a longtime REI customer who has returned used items, put it another way: "Some people think I'm a scumbag," he says.

Earlier this year, Mr. Thomas, says he returned a backpack he bought in 2004, which he had hauled up the tallest mountain in Yosemite National Park and hundreds of miles across a number of states. But it "was getting old and dirty, and I didn't like it anymore," he says.

Mr. Thomas returned the nine-year-old backpack to the REI store near his home in San Ramon, Calif. REI gave him a brand-new backpack plus $17 in cash—the difference between his purchase price and the item's new low cost. He later returned that one, too, when he realized there was a newer model.

His justification: Since he bought hundreds of REI products over the years, he says, the retailer still has made a healthy overall profit on his purchases."

Another vote for scumbag...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013...prfacebook&utm_source=npr&utm_medium=facebook

Jay

Jay H said:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013...prfacebook&utm_source=npr&utm_medium=facebook

Jay

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That was a very interesting piece. I actually heard it when it was broadcast. The end of the piece I thought was quite to the point

"For his part, Fuller of L.L. Bean says his company is sticking to its policy. He says he's never been in a meeting where someone questioned the value of the guarantee. The only question he gets is whether the company talks about it enough.

If anything, L.L. Bean seems to be welcoming the customers REI might be willing to let go. Behind its store counters, the guarantee is written in giant text. And there are a few reasons why this may be better business for L.L. Bean. Many of its sales are mail order, so it's less convenient for customers to return stuff. And, Fuller says, the crazy return stories are great marketing for the company.

"How many times has your colleague talked about the fact that she's returned that backpack, and L.L. Bean gave her a new one without question?" Fuller said. "That's really the value of the guarantee."

As a business practice, it's expensive. As advertising, it's cheap."

Jay H said:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013...prfacebook&utm_source=npr&utm_medium=facebook

Jay

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I used to hike with a fellow who worked for Bean's in Freeport. He would tell us about funny stories people made up to get something for nothing. He said it took all he could do sometimes to keep a straight face when looking at the customer.

Gotta have new gear always so you can look sharp and fashionable on the trail. A few years ago, I bought a universal repair kit for all gear. In this one kit, you can fix leaky boots, holes in hiking gear and fabrics, patch up a backpack... even build yourself some waterproof boot liners. It's called Duct Tape, and I've never found a problem in the woods where it didn't some in handy.

Somebody rips their pack and thinks "!@#$... now I gotta return it". I rip a pack and proudly bust out the duct tape. I don't need any fancy patches to show my mettle as a hiker: I let my scars and duct taped gear do all the talking for me.

But after reading this, I will say that my next stop anytime I need anything will be LL Bean. I've never been to their store before... so I'll try to win the lotto first.

iagreewithjamie said:

Gotta have new gear always so you can look sharp and fashionable on the trail. A few years ago, I bought a universal repair kit for all gear. In this one kit, you can fix leaky boots, holes in hiking gear and fabrics, patch up a backpack... even build yourself some waterproof boot liners. It's called Duct Tape, and I've never found a problem in the woods where it didn't some in handy.

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LOL this is classic! I have found it to be an excellent blister prevention aid also. J&J must have made a fine profit on it's invention. Sorry for the thread drift. http://duckbrand.com/duck-tape-club/history-of-duck-tape

One trick with LL Beans for those who have Discover Credit Cards, you can buy LL Beans gift cards for 20% off with the cashback bonus from Discover. I usually use the gift cards for most of the cost of my Beans order and use the Beans card for the balance to get free shipping (including return shipping if I screwed up an bought the wrong size). I think I miss out on the cash back credit on the Beans card but its minor compared to the 20% discount. Beans also frequently has a $10 gift card during slow times of the year that they send you after a purchase of some minimum size. It is usually worth it to leave out one lower cost item from the primary order and then order it when you get the gift card. I bought a big box of handwarmers last year that way. I think they were half price with the card

Its still expensive stuff but you cant beat the guarantee. I rarely have had to return items but especially with specialty gear that may only get used a couple of times a season, if something fails due to design defect versus wear I have used the guarantee in the past. My MSR lightnings were bought there, I figure between MSR and Beans, if they fail due to a defect I will get them replaced.

fwiw, REI will still take back your gear at any time if they fail due to a defect. You just can use the 'shoes to a natural death and then bring them back because you don't feel like paying for a new pair. (not suggesting you would)