When does a memorial become trash in a backcountry setting?

Nawww, there are no a-holes here, just a lot of opinions worth sharing.

But welcome to VFTT, Nicole, and hoping you stick around with your passion and your trip reports. Therapy? there is a group session coming up on Nov. 2 (see events page) facilitated by Dr. Pat and Dr. Audrey. Best wishes!

Thanks for posting, Nicole. I came upon one of your boxes last weekend on Mt Jackson. I had some very mixed feelings about it. While I appreciated learning of your journey and how you had come to the mountains to work it out, I didn't like seeing your Boston Box on the summit. I opened it and explored its contents, as I believe is also your intent...and for several moments I struggled with the desire to put it in my pack and return it to you with a gentle LNT reminder OR to leave it. I ended up removing your contact info and leaving the box, and planned to get in touch through Facebook, when I saw your post here.

We all journey to the mountains for varying reasons...but for many I think a common thread is to connect our inner core with the natural world and all its power....respect for this is for me at the heart of LNT.

Thanks for reading.


+1 ERUGS

MadRiver said:

As someone who is over-the-top anal about Leave No Trace, I “personally” have no problem with what you were doing. Given the amount of trash that is routinely left at trailheads and summits, a small wooden box placed under a cairn or placed in an inconspicuous spot for only you to know of its existence is perfectly fine, for me at least. I’ve seen many individual memorials or remembrances carved into a stone and placed on a summit, and yet no one seems to mind. Just because it is made of wood, shouldn’t discount it message.

On a personal note, my two young nieces were at the finish line that day, though they left with their father a mere ten minutes before the first explosion. I cannot even fathom what that would have been like for our family if they had remained.

I find it unconscionable that you cannot receive the adequate help in coming to terms with such a violent encounter. It should make no difference if you were a volunteer or a paid first responder, something is seriously wrong with our system of medical care if this is left unchallenged. I generally stay out of political debates, but this just pisses me off!!!!

I cannot view you video at work, not that it is not allowed, it is just not acceptable in polite society to be crying at your desk during working hours. I will, however, view it at home.

I do hope I have the privilege to meet you on the trail some day? I will be the middle aged guy wearing a kilt and crying, so try not to be too alarmed.

God Speed Nicole!

P/B

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No offense, but you cant be over the top anal about LNT and not have a problem with the boxes... just saying. As far as Nicole goes, I'm glad the boxes will cease. I'm sorry you've had it so tough, I hope you keep hiking as the mountains will cure you or help you anyway. You sound like a very nice person who has had some tough times. God willing, it will get better soon for you.

Nicole, while I do not have the depth of experience you have had in the medical response & trauma field, I have put in my years in the past working with SAR in the Whites where I grew up. It was a tradition passed down in my family, from my great uncle, to my father, and then to me. During that time I was involved in numerous call-outs, most uneventful, but there was one where we did indeed lose the individual, body carry out, and the unfortunate discovery of another one who had 'gone lost', as we would say, but in actuality, turned out they went deliberately with the intent of taking their life - which they accomplished.

These events are not easy, I too was a volunteer, and there was no offer for counseling, or even a follow up to how we were doing after. As I am sure you can relate to, it was a job. I was (relatively) young at the time, but I will admit that later in life, I had to come to terms with it. When I was younger and in the thick of it, it didn't bother me a bit. But years later, with reflection, it caught up to me, and when it did, my dealing with it put my own wife through a bit of hell.

Just want you to know, that with the years going by, all things fall into place. All things will pass, and even if they don't totally disappear, one comes to terms with it the best they can. I cannot tell you that's a guarantee, its just one person's experience. When I hike to certain areas, I certainly do experience a bit of feelings of old, but I have never been tempted to leave any type of memorial to individuals who are certainly deserving of such, both victims, those who put selves at risk to help & respond, and even those who personally helped me in life. So in that area, I cannot offer any thoughts.

I do want to say that, though my years of active SAR are behind me (I still keep my WFA up to date), one thing has occurred to me. I have seen how stupid mistakes and faulty human reasoning has led to a lot of trouble, and even loss of life. Sometimes its ignorance, sometimes its bravado. In such cases, such ones have paid the price for what has either happened to them, or what they caused. While I do have a measure of sympathy for them, the one's I really, really (and I cannot stress this enough) sympathize with - are the ones they leave behind. The family, the friends, the spouse and/or child/ren who have no fault in the situation. Those are the victims I really feel sorry for. For those of you who haven't had to see it or experience it, it is a sickening, hollow dread that will bring you to your knees. It's sad enough just to witness them receive the news of who they have lost.

Whether a life is taken by tragedy, error, or accident, it's one too many in my humble opinion.

I've just returned from trekking (Nepal) and have a lot to catch up on and digest. I've read through the latest reports on this thread and hope that you don't feel singled out, Nicole, because this thread started originally about a different kind of memorial. What you left on mountains added fuel to the fire that might not have been noticed otherwise. Please know that many of us feel awful about any and all tragedies. Our comments here are meant to educate, not condemn. Leave No Trace is not a VFTT invention but a national program and the "rules" are listed in many places, including many trailhead, outfitting stores, hiking magazines, etc. I littered (TP) when I first began hiking, but have since learned that we all have the ability to keep our natural areas more natural. Keep on trekking and keep on learning!

This weekend I removed a Boston sweatshirt from a cairn on Mt. Monadnock. It was probably more for the Red Sox than anything else (no real logo). It upset me since someone set it on the cairn and then placed rocks on top to keep it from blowing away. Certainly planned rather than just dropped out of a pack. While I'm sure they thought they were doing something cool/good/whatever, the end result was a sweatshirt in the trash rather than celebrating/honoring anyone.

I won't make any friends for this but...as someone who served 21 years in the military and believes strongly in LNT, I'll just give my $.02 on this and be gone.

There are plenty of places to honor our fallen troops. Places such as Veteran's Cemeteries and Memorials which have been constructed for the purposes of honoring our Veterans are the places to honor them officially. I feel to not honor them in the proper place or proper manner is inappropriate. The hiking trails are simply not meant to be permanent memorials for anyone. Hiking to the summit and setting up some flowers or a candle is fine as long as you take what you bring in and (not to be cliché') clean up and leave no trace.

Some seem to have a problem with Flags on the 48. I have no issue with it and plan to take part in it one of these days. To my understanding the flags are taken down and everything is hauled away after a few hours and no trace is left.

That's it for me on this issue.

Dear All...
It has been almost 3 years since the bombing and I leave you with this. Please go- wander out into the world and help someone. Use the intelligent, passionate energy you have all displayed here and please spread kindness throughout your day. "pay it forward".
Since April 2013 there have been more and more tragedies throughout the world. We all need to show more kindness to others, myself included. So next time something gets your "all hyped up"... remember this.
Go ahead, save it. copy and paste it and analyze all the bad grammar. But mostly know that if you posted on this site and this story. If you read this current post, it's for a reason. I've learn that nothing is by chance in this world. You will be able to help someone...someday even if you don't realize it at the time.
Thank you all for your time. I know your hearts and opinions/ passion are in the right place.
~Nicole )
I don't regularly check this site. I think after people were posting, I was overwhelmed. When I finally sat down to get my "shit" together for a lack of more mature words, I checked it for a few days and then never signed on again.
It's been a couple years. When someone is in such a state as I was, it's not the best idea to lash out at them. I recall at one point, someone wrote they were so mad they were going to blow the box up and send it back to me. Yeah... because that's exactly what will get across to someone who has just been through a bombing where everythign was blown up in front of them. Mind you they are likely not in their "calm and clear" train of thought at the time and seeking the mountains for refuge. I sincerely hope people who lashed out never have to experience what i did. Again, looking back on this years later I realize most meant no harm, but I hope that this has not just been a learning experience for myself and LNT but for others in their communication to those who are not as well versed as they are.
My reason for randomly checking this site in years is that it came up under my name search on google. I would like you to know (for sole reason of pure curiosity and/or personal knowledge) that I actually had an injury from the bombing. It was not known or discovered. I am choosing to again, put myself out there in hopes to help others who also might be struggling. It is NOT Common, but can with explosions and can be very frustrating. Symptoms can mimick PTSD and post concussive symptoms.
Turns out, I actually needed surgery from an injury sustained during the bomb blast and just discovered the injury a few months ago. I'm doing well, my head feels much better. I had a hole in the inner inner inner (not the middle haha/ as is most common) but inner ear. It was leaking spinal fluid from my brain causing CNS sx. Most common in War combat explosions, fast plane descents and scuba divers.
Because many people who care enough to read this are relatively science based beings. I learned after surgery that the explosion has 3 components. The blast wave travels faster than the speed of sound. From the little I’ve chosen to learn, I think I was randomly standing in the wrong place at the right time in the medical tent.
They took a small graft from the side of my head and patched the inner ear to seal off the leak. For a lack of a better explanation. My reason for sharing is again, so hopefully help someone else someday who is struggling.
It had been almost 2 ½ years and no one ever checked my hearing or gave a thought that I might have an injury. I didn’t even know. Things like this are often not discovered until years later (if they don’t heal) because they are not pressing in the moment of chaos. You are just trying to address the immediate day to day survival.
For me, a spontaneous eye nystagmus, randomly elevated HR, memory loss, confusion, flashbacks and tears didn’t make me think “oh I need surgery on my head.” That said, I'm not looking for anyone to feel badly. I just think in todays' world of chaos, it would be nice for everyone to take a deep breath and think before they lash out and judge others. The best thing anyone reading this might do, is to share with anyone who you might come across one day that is going through a tough time.
Look at it as an opportunity to teach and show others the way.


http://oto2.wustl.edu/cochlea/intro1.htm

http://www.asha.org/aud/Articles/Auditory-Effects-of-Blast-Exposure/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...d327a-df97-11e4-be40-566e2653afe5_story.html#

Thanks for having the courage to share your story, Nicole.

Hope to see you on the trails again soon, and I hope you have a full recovery.