Knots For Hiking

Can anyone recommend a selection of key knots that are "must-have" knowledge for hiking in the Whites and what they are used for? And more importantly can anyone recommend a YouTube video or site with videos showing how to tie the knots? I've been researching lately and finding far too much information to make a decision as to what 4-6 knots I really should know how to tie and also I find pictures and word descriptions are useless to me for learning the techniques. I'd like to be able to practice the knots. I've never really had occasion to need a proper knot for most of what I do but I'd like to expand my experience level and preparedness level. I'd imagine there are some go-to knots many of you use quite often so I figure that is a good starting point.

(I should point out that I always day hike so knots for tying down tent tarps, camping applications, hoisting food bags, etc would not be of use to me. I'd be more interested in knots for fastening items to my backpack, lowering myself with a rope down a short slippery ledge, knots for creating an emergency shelter, emergency gear repair, first aid knots for say attaching a splint to a broken leg, etc, etc.). Thanks as always.

Website: Grog's Animated Knots. They also have a smartphone app.

Knots: Munter hitch (for lowering), clove hitch and girth hitch (for lashing stuff), tautline hitch (for tightening tent guylines), surgeon's knot (for attaching bandages or splints).

I think the only knot I've ever used while hiking is the tautline hitch - for securing the flag pole for FOT48. Oh, and the double bow to tie your boots.

Tim

I use this knot for my shoelaces.

Another useful knot is more difficult to describe. To tie the end of a rope to something securely, loop the end of the rope through the grommet (or whatever you're fastening to), then tie a knot that looks like half of a grapevine knot (strangle knot) which will slide along the rope. It is slightly more difficult to tie than two half hitches, but more secure.

Edit: It's called a Poacher's knot.

J.Dub said:

Website: Grog's Animated Knots. They also have a smartphone app. Knots: Munter hitch (for lowering), clove hitch and girth hitch (for lashing stuff), tautline hitch (for tightening tent guylines), surgeon's knot (for attaching bandages or splints).

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+1

Except no clove hitch
Add figure eight and variation for potential climbing apps.

I have a very small list of knots that I use regularly but, the Truckers Hitch is the most useful knot that I have in my arsenal. Like the taughtline hitch, it is good for pulling the line tight. This is the knot taught to scouts for the canoeing merit badge; tying canoes to trailers and roof racks. I use it to bind gear (cinch up a sleeping pad), tie down loads on trailers, tighten guidelines and any application requiring good tension in the line after the knot is tied. Once the concept is understood, there are many variations of this knot that can be used.

I think that this graphic (link) gives a pretty simple understanding of the basic structure of the truckers hitch.

http://cdnmax.clarkegreen.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/trucker-hitch.png

Lost Dad said:

I have a very small list of knots that I use regularly but, the Truckers Hitch is the most useful knot that I have in my arsenal. Like the taughtline hitch, it is good for pulling the line tight. This is the knot taught to scouts for the canoeing merit badge; tying canoes to trailers and roof racks. I use it to bind gear (cinch up a sleeping pad), tie down loads on trailers, tighten guidelines and any application requiring good tension in the line after the knot is tied. Once the concept is understood, there are many variations of this knot that can be used.

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I'm a heavy user of the trucker's hitch, also known as a rigger's hitch. Very useful for tying boats on cars and tensioning lines.

Another useful knot is the bowline to form a loop at the end of a line.

Re the figure eight: it is useful on a bight (to make a loop), rethreaded to tie a loop around something, or rethreaded as a bend (to splice two lines together).

An overhand on a bight (to make a loop) can be useful, but may hard to untie after being heavily loaded.

And an alpine butterfly is good if you need a loop at the midpoint of a line. (I often use them in rigger's hitches.) It has the advantage over many other knots for loops at midpoints that it takes tension well from any or all of the exiting lines. (It is often used in technical climbing for a middleman to tie into the middle of a rope.)

Doug

DougPaul said:

. And an alpine butterfly is good if you need a loop at the midpoint of a line. (I often use them in rigger's hitches.) It has the advantage over many other knots for loops at midpoints that it takes tension well from any or all of the exiting lines. (It is often used in technical climbing for a middleman to tie into the middle of a rope.) Doug

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This is a beautiful knot - dare I say elegant. you can see how the leads direct the load, making it great for its purpose ... which I find to be rather limited.

It is also great when playing the dueling "do you know the _____ knot?" game

+1 for this thread, all great replies. Love the Grog site; thanks, J Dub!

I don't tie the butterfly often. It IS a beautiful knot. But it takes most people (myself included) a few tries to get it right. I think the butterfly was developed when you really needed to worry about the amount of rope strength lost due to the knot. Modern ropes are so strong for their purposes that that's not as much of an issue. I usually tie a figure 8 on a bight in the middle of a rope now, instead of a butterfly.

I still find the timber hitch to be very useful, and so easy to tie.

Other than that I tend to use the taught line, or just a clove hitch. Occasionally a square not is used to join two ropes (because I can't remember how to tie a sheep shank).

I use the bowline a lot. It works well with synthetic ropes and generally no matter how tight it was pulled on , the know will come apart.

John H Swanson said:

This is a beautiful knot - dare I say elegant. you can see how the leads direct the load, making it great for its purpose ... which I find to be rather limited.

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I agree that it is an elegant knot. As is the carrick bend. (The carrick bend might be a bit intricate for most backcountry use (a figure-8 bend or fisherman's knot/grapevine might be more appropriate in most cases)--one use is for splicing anchor rodes or mooring lines.)

TCD said:

I don't tie the butterfly often. It IS a beautiful knot. But it takes most people (myself included) a few tries to get it right. I think the butterfly was developed when you really needed to worry about the amount of rope strength lost due to the knot. Modern ropes are so strong for their purposes that that's not as much of an issue. I usually tie a figure 8 on a bight in the middle of a rope now, instead of a butterfly.

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I originally learned the butterfly as a middleman's knot on a climbing rope. IMO, it is easy to tie once you learn the "trick". It has the advantage that it takes tension well from any of the possible directions unlike the figure-8 on a bight. The figure-8 may be a bit easier to tie, but it does not take tension well from the two long ends. In fact, it can invert and untie. (See studies on the safety of the "European Death Knot" for rapelling.) The figure-8 is great for forming a loop at the end of a line, but IMO is not a good choice for the middleman on a climbing rope.

All knots weaken the rope by at least one third, some by as much as one half. (Any sharp bend reduces the strength of a rope.) The safety factor in climbing gear is pretty slim--only about 2:1. Eg maximum forces on a climbing rope are 2000-2500 lbs and a typical climbing rope might break around 4000-5000 lbs. (Safety factors in lines used in construction are typically 5:1 or greater.) Using inappropriate knots further reduces one's safety factors. (And in real use, wear, UV, aging, and general degradation further weaken a rope.)

An important factor determining the strength of a knot is the radius of curvature at the point where a tensioned line enters the knot--it is significantly longer for the butterfly (and the carrick bend) than for a figure-8 when you tension the lines coming out of the same end of the knot in opposite direction. (Ie, tie the loop on a bight at the center of the rope and pull on both ends with no tension on the loop itself.)


Some general comments:
* All knots have advantages and disadvantages. Some are stronger in one direction or another, some jam under heavy load and become hard to untie, some are more prone to spontaneous untying, etc. In critical situations (eg technical climbing and sailing) it is important to be aware of such issues. In hiking, such issues are generally less critical.
* Knots come in families--knowing one member of the family might help one to remember others. For instance, a bow is a modified square knot. (I hope none of you are tying granny bows... )
* Some knot terminology for non-knot freaks: A bend connects (splices) the ends of two lines together. A loop on a bight is formed by taking a section at the center of the rope and tying a knot to form a loop. Access to the ends is not required.

Doug

TJsName said:

(because I can't remember how to tie a sheep shank).

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A sheepshank is a modified bowline with the loop cut. Compare the two side-by-side and it may help you to remember how to tie the sheepshank. I believe the primary advantage of the sheepshank is that it is a good knot for splicing two different-sized lines. If the lines are the same size, I would use a different knot.

Doug

peakbagger said:

I use the bowline a lot. It works well with synthetic ropes and generally no matter how tight it was pulled on , the know will come apart.

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I use a bowline quite a bit too, but unfortunately, the it can come apart at inopportune times. It is ok on a layed (ridged surface) rope, but can come loose on a smooth surface rope (eg a kernmantle climbing rope), so it is no longer acceptable for a climber tying into the end of a climbing rope. It was initially replaced by the double bowline (better but still not failsafe) and modern practice is to use a rethreadded figure-8 loop tied into one's harness. (The figure-8 is not likely to untie spontaneously.)

Doug

Thanks for the detail, Doug! I have read about the edk "unrolling" or inverting, and that can certainly happen to an 8 as well, as a middle knot. But it's not a safety issue once the middleman is clipped to it; just an inconvenience if it really rolls up hard against the locking biner (unlikely). Of course an overhand is less likely to unroll; but it puts more stress on the rope. When I use an 8, it's always snug and "well-dressed" so it is most likely going to stay put, at least under "middleman" type loads (ie, no long lead falls). But maybe I will practice the butterfly more - if only to show off for my friends!

TCD said:

Thanks for the detail, Doug! I have read about the edk "unrolling" or inverting, and that can certainly happen to an 8 as well, as a middle knot. But it's not a safety issue once the middleman is clipped to it; just an inconvenience if it really rolls up hard against the locking biner (unlikely). Of course an overhand is less likely to unroll; but it puts more stress on the rope. When I use an 8, it's always snug and "well-dressed" so it is most likely going to stay put, at least under "middleman" type loads (ie, no long lead falls). But maybe I will practice the butterfly more - if only to show off for my friends!

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Since the EDK is intended to be used only for rapelling rope strength shouldn't be an issue. Middleman knot forces, of course, can be much higher.

In the case of a figure-8 middleman tie-in, the knot could undress itself even if the biner prevents a full inversion--I have no idea how strong the resulting "knot" would be for the middleman if, for instance the force from one end first came on the second end and then transferred to the loop. (My guess is that it would jam, but I don't want to rely on a guess to protect my life.) Also the knot would be weaker than the butterfly if the tension is between the two rope ends. The figure 8 would be fine if one could guarantee that the tension would only come from one end...

FWIW, I find the butterfly to be pretty easy to tie, but then I can tie a carrick bend too... (And if you tie and dress them both, you will see some similarities.)

Doug

Thanks for the sites and knot recommendations. I have two specific applications I'm looking for knots for:

1) Using a rope attached to a tree to use as leverage to walk down a slippery or icy ledge (not rapel or lower my full weight with - just to use as a "handhold" so to speak for balance purposes where poles would be useless. And by ledges I'm talking about those 6'-10' variety that are too high to simply jump off or butt slide down without injury or further issues on the landing. I will not be going up or down "big boy" ledges like a real climber would). I could simply take a length of rope, wrap around a tree and hold the two ends together but if I slipped or lost grip on one of the ends it could get ugly fast. Is there such a knot that I could use that would provide a loop or somehow prevent slippage while descending that I could then untie and pull the rope down to me from one end? I've never done any sort of climbing so I am 100% clueless as to terminology and basic knots for this. Maybe I need carabiners or additional gear to do this like some sort of clip that holds both ends of the rope and you can squeeze to loosen but it tightens when you let go?

2) Need a knot that keeps tension on my shoelaces across the instep loops (not the last knot at the top). I do the extra wraps around as I lace but this area of my shoes always seems to loosen up. This is a particular pain in the winter when relacing involves taking off gaiters, unzipping or pulling up pant legs, breaking up ice and snow that may have been trapped underneath on the shoe or zippers, etc, etc. Is there a knot that can be pulled snugged that holds its tension across the instep?

Any advice on these particular applications would be helpful.

DayTrip said:

1) Using a rope attached to a tree to use as leverage to walk down a slippery or icy ledge (not rapel or lower my full weight with - just to use as a "handhold" so to speak for balance purposes where poles would be useless. And by ledges I'm talking about those 6'-10' variety that are too high to simply jump off or butt slide down without injury or further issues on the landing. I will not be going up or down "big boy" ledges like a real climber would). I could simply take a length of rope, wrap around a tree and hold the two ends together but if I slipped or lost grip on one of the ends it could get ugly fast. Is there such a knot that I could use that would provide a loop or somehow prevent slippage while descending that I could then untie and pull the rope down to me from one end? I've never done any sort of climbing so I am 100% clueless as to terminology and basic knots for this. Maybe I need carabiners or additional gear to do this like some sort of clip that holds both ends of the rope and you can squeeze to loosen but it tightens when you let go?

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This is a rappel whether you support all or only part of your weight.
* The simplest form is to find the centerpoint of the rope, place it on the high side of a tree trunk, and throw both ends down the slope on opposite sides of the tree. Use 7-9 mm climbing rope. (Your life depends on the rope--use the good stuff, no parachute cord!)
* Make sure the ends are long enough so you do not rappel off the ends! It is good practice to tie stopper knots (figure-8s) in the ends so you do not slide off the ends.
* If the slope is gentle, you can just grab both lines and slide down. (Wear leather gloves or you are likely to burn yourself.) This is a handline.
* If the slope steeper, you will need a rappel brake. Consult rock climbing manuals (eg Freedom of the Hills) for details of brakes. (There are techniques for increasing the friction by wrapping the rope around your body, but the heat will melt through nylon and polyester clothing. Cotton or wool is ok.)
* After you are down, untie the stopper knots and pull on one end to retrieve the rope. This is harmful to trees--the friction damages the bark. Use a rappel sling (perhaps with a rappel ring) to protect the tree. (The sling and ring will be left behind.)
* Rappelling is dangerous--many of the greats have died from rappel failures. Get an experienced rock climber to check you out before trying it.

2) Need a knot that keeps tension on my shoelaces across the instep loops (not the last knot at the top). I do the extra wraps around as I lace but this area of my shoes always seems to loosen up. This is a particular pain in the winter when relacing involves taking off gaiters, unzipping or pulling up pant legs, breaking up ice and snow that may have been trapped underneath on the shoe or zippers, etc, etc. Is there a knot that can be pulled snugged that holds its tension across the instep?

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I add overhand knots at selected lace crossing points just above and below the instep for this purpose. See http://www.backpacker.com/gear/5245 for a description of a variety of lacing techniques.

Doug

Where do you expect to need to rappel? I can't say I have ever seen a "hiker" rappel anywhere in the Whites on a hiking trail.

Tim

DougPaul said:

After you are down, untie the stopper knots and pull on one end to retrieve the rope. This is harmful to trees--the friction damages the bark.

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Quoted for truth (QFT). Repeatedly pulling ropes around a tree can kill the tree. Don't leave slings, either, they are trash in this context.

Doug, this is for you: http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web12f/wfeature-dirtbag-diatribes-number-two

It covers the butterfly knot!