Where would you buy (Location, location, location...) ??

bobandgeri said:

Perhaps you need to find a way to covert the wife to be a mountain gal!

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Be my guest! I've been trying for the last 10 years or so.

Tim

I think on a river or small lake would be okay, depending on how much you wanted to spend. When we started looking we realized quickly that many places do not have a barn or even garage (needed) and that the length of many driveways or private roads would render them very difficult or impossible to access in winter and mud season. Property taxes fluctuate wildly, sometimes with little reason, even in the same town. We also didn't want to get all the way "up there" and still be an hour from where we hike and ski, which is easy to do. We are close to snowmobile and quad trails, state land, etc but not on any water. We're 1/2 mile from town, which is really nice (golf, x-country ski, walk to cocktail or movie etc), 15 minutes to Home Depot & Shaw's and 15 minutes to trail-heads and skiing. Town services are very good. So I'd like a lake or river, but that was the first thing that came off our list.

http://www.homepath.com/state/nh.html and http://www.beangroup.com/property/search.php?state=NH have pretty much everything that's available.

If you search "lake" as a keyword, Bean works well. "Waterfront" means ocean on that site apparently.

bikehikeskifish said:

I appreciate the general tips - they are helpful.

Tim

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Here's a general tip: One thing we learned quickly after buying a second home was that we needed to keep another car there.

I have a pretty good indication that "lake" is the one part that is not negotiable That said, I am trying to maximize access to the other things / minimize driving to those things.

If this were an easy puzzle to solve, I probably would have figured it out by now. But I am hopeful someone will come up with something I haven't yet thought of.

One plus of the island is that there aren't any roads, and so the need for more than one car is somewhat diminished.

Tim

Not sure what's available, but have you checked out Stinson Lake in Ellsworth?

I have no money but since you asked - buy a house on the Jackson XC course. Best XC Skiing, close to Wildcat and Attitash, close to all the hiking trails, a short jaunt to Maine for biking and only 90 minutes to the ocean.

You know, I have never XC'd at Jackson... there are too many good choices an hour+ closer to home. Maybe I'll go out there this winter (if you can call it that...)

Tim

We chose Bartlett/N. Conway and are 5 minutes from Jackson. We have all the amenities close by and back up on the WMNF. 3 hour drive. Just about every sport is available to us other than we are not on a lake (which was not an issue for us). Plan is to move there permanently in next 10 years when the kids are off to college. We looked at condos and despite the advantages noted above, major disadvantages to us were the very expensive HOA fees and the lack of any ability to store our toys. Maintenance? Really very little. Turn water off, turn water heater off, lower thermostat. We have a great neighborhood with other MA refugees who have relocated.

Greater Bozeman MT. 1 hour to Yellowstone and Big Sky, Gallatins and Bridgers in Backyard. 1000s of miles of trails within 1 hour, several thousand within 3 Wilderness areas that make your jaw drop and oh yeah no crowds like the northeast. But open to anywhere out west preferably in the Rockies with ample hiking and not too far from XC and downhill skiing. New England has its niceties but I'm ready for new scenery.

If anyone wants a place in Maine, ours is for sale 20 acres in Dover Foxcroft. 3 miles to town 3 miles to 6000 Acre Sebec Lake less than an hour to Moosehead or Bangor, 80 miles to Acadia. Hour to Millinocket, you can hike Baxter on a bluebird day as a day trip . Lots of crowd free hiking in Maine. Or 3 hours to Gorham NH Less than 2 to Sugarloaf/Bigelows. We'll even throw in our dairy goats and chickens. Fancy camp or simple homestead.

bikehikeskifish said:

I often consider a vacation property investment "up north". I am interested in a discussion of the pros and cons of locations you own, or have considered, or any other thoughts you may have. To frame the conversation, there will be a tension across the following desirable conditions:

1. Lake front, or close to lake front, or with right-of-way
2. Close to good hiking, preferably "in the Whites"
3. Close to good skiing (both downhill and XC... Waterville, Bretton Woods, and Jackson are the big XC centers of interest)
4. Close to good cycling
5. Would prefer a "house" to a "condo".

There are not an abundance of lakes IN the mountains. If one goes to the Lakes Region, then one is further from the skiing and hiking, and the traffic makes cycling less desirable, especially on weekends when I would use it most.

Likes or dislikes about any place in the general area that you currently own are also interesting.

Tim

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We went through this very same decision process a decade or so ago, and found something that met all of these criteria in the Conway/Albany/Madison, NH area. We are on a small pond that is great for swimming and kayaking, but does not allow jet skis or power boats. If you are not interested in a big lake, there are a number of smaller lakes/ponds around: Silver Lake (which is actually pretty big) Pea Porridge Ponds in Madison, Crystal Lake in Eaton, Iona Lake in Albany.

Our place is almost exactly two hours (116 miles) from our home on Boston's north shore (Peakbagger is right that the further away you are from the 2 hour range the fewer trips you will make), and less than an hour from any of the major notches. I am less than 5 minutes form the Kanc. There are also a number of skiing options within 15-45 minutes, ranging from King Pine to Wildcat and Bretton Woods.

The North Conway area gets a bad rap, due to the traffic and retail strip, but being just south of that we can get to our place without hitting traffic. I also like the range of eating and drinking options in the area.

We bought a small house, probably close to the top of the market timing-wise (unfortunately). Our intent was not to rent it or buy it as an investment, but to use it. We do that; about 50 weekends or so a year and extended periods between weekends. We love the place. Buying that house was among the best decisions we ever made.

Thanks, Larry. I had ruled out anything in the North Conway area as too busy/too touristy. Perhaps I will reconsider.

Tim

Forest Lake in Dalton/Whitefield is very nice. Clean, big enough. http://www.newenglandmoves.com/prop...957/319-Forest-Lake-Road-Dalton-NH-03598.aspx

Pine Hill Ski Club has taken over many of the Norsk trails

I think of Shelburne NH as being pricey, but it's a good location particularly if you like ME and I think it's in a rain shadow so more nice days

A friend was talking to a guy from NJ who had a vacation home in Rangely ME, who said the 7-hour drive was worth it to get out of NJ, no comment on what % of weekends he made it up. If your place is only 2 hours away you can even go for short weekends if a kid has an event at home one day.

Lots of people in NH buy their primary home on water and then don't need a separate vacation home - you can afford a better place if it's dual-purpose and less time out for maintenance. I recently met a guy who had bought his retirement home in NH while still working in MA, and commuted 2 hrs each way.

One guy I know had a summer cottage at Weirs Beach which was maybe a little over 2 hours from his home in MA, as an accountant he spent the winter doing year-end closings and taxes hence didn't get away much then. This was walking distance to beach, convenience stores, food joints, and arcades which his teenagers loved. He would do day hikes sometimes with family members, and occasionally take the car up north and camp out one night - family didn't need a car at that location. He is probably the most diverse peakbagger in NH with something like 1600 different summits climbed and dozens of ascents of the small peaks around the lake.

As retirement approached he wanted a quieter place with land, he first thought of traditional hiking communities like Wonalancet and Randolph but prices were sky-high even in secondary spots like Chatham. He finally got a small house with large garage in Milan on 12 acres including 1-acre pond, by going so far N this was under $200k. This was 4+ hours from home which was too far while still working, had to hire local to mow lawn and check place for issues like flooded basement when sump pump failed during power outage. He also had to run the heat full time to keep tiles from cracking, etc. He finally sold his house down below and quit working, but finds up N there are a lot more days with snow to shovel than in MA so harder to actually get out hiking. But including ME and VT he's now within a couple hours of hundreds of rarely-climbed peaks that were too far away previously.

My wife and I recently bought a second home in campton in the waterville estates. We went thru many of the same check list items with a few differences. Lake front was not a priority but access to broadband Internet access was a must have since we both work from home and intended to split time between our MA and NH homes. Turns out we are pretty much full time NH at this point. We are both avid hikers with me being a 4 season backpacker, skiers both at the resorts and backcountry, serious MTB's and kayakers so access to water was important. We originally looked above the notch in Franconia and the surrounding area but any home that had a mountain feel to it did not have the Internet access we required. We looked at bit in the lakes area south of Conway but since it was not a priority we ruled it out do to the same concerns of congestion you have not so much in the towns like Madison but having to travel north thru or around the outlet circus was not in the plan. One other consideration for you would be newfound lake. I have 2 brother in laws who own In the lakes region and while they are great lake front properties if you are more mountain than lake it would not be for you. Where we ended up buying was really the last place we considered but it turned out to be the perfect location with access to everything we love to do including river and pond access within a short drive. We got the idea to look in the area based on a chance conversation I had with a guy on the summit of N Kinsman. We are within 15 minutes to either Plymouth or Lincoln so civilization is close by. I was a little reluctant to move into a home owners association but it has turned out to be fine. We wanted the privacy of a home while keeping it low maintenance. We found that.Taxes are a bit high but it seems like everywhere we looked was on the high end. There is no perfect solution so as usual compromise is the key. Best of luck when you find the right place you will know it!

One of the biggest factors is whether you want to truly be out in the wilds or whether you want to be near a population center where there are amenities and services but where there also will be tourists and traffic. Coming from metrowest MA, nothing north of Concord or Rochester caused us any concern in this regard. But certainly others might view Lincoln, Waterville Valley and N. Conway as being unacceptable when it comes to these issues. We like the idea of having a community with amenities, particularly where there are few crowds in the off-season anyway. Dining, a few big box stores, being close to access to the Whites and a number of ski areas were all important to us. In addition, we like to be able to go really far north (i.e., Errol and points northeast and northwest from there) and the Bartlett/Jackson area allows for a good jumping off point for those pursuits, albeit those excursions are obviously full day affairs (if you are any farther south, those trips get much more challenging). I'd say we go to our house around 30-35 w/e's a year (including all major holidays) and the drive has not bothered me one bit. Sometimes we go 153 off 16 for some scenery. The whole N. Conway traffic issue seems overstated to us. Not sure there has ever been more than a couple times where it's been an annoyance, as it can just about always be avoided if you know the local roads, and it is really limited the 16 strip between Conway and the Intervale RR crossing.

One item that is not a major concern with vacation homes but should be with transitional retirement homes is the local sense of community. Over the years I have heard several folks who ended up in the North Conway/Jackson/Bartlett area that there were few "locals" the towns were basically just seasonal colonies. There are locals in these towns but the percentage is lower. Some towns like Randolph is very seasonal, there a few winter residents but the majority are long term summer residents. Randolph's year rounders try to keep community going during the winter but lacking even a post office its a tough. Shelburne tedns to be accepting of folks from away who want to live there and participate, on the other hand if the folks aren't interested, the town basically ignores them. Its hard to figure out the sense of community in those towns unless you rent for awhile.

To many community isn't a highly valued item, as a vacationer you may not feel you need it, but if you move up year round, it gets really isolated without some locals to commiserate with . In most of those towns, the good service providers don't have to advertise everyone knows them. Its generally the less competent folks that will advertise as the local know their reputation but out of towners don't.

Our experience in Bartlett has been positive in terms of meeting year-rounders who have relocated there permanently. Same with folks we have met in Jackson. We are in a small neighborhood with mostly year-rounders. At the end of the day, seems like most of the more populated areas have a very large number of seasonal folks, which so far has not been an issue for us. While I agree in principle with Peakbagger, I think the community and whether and how you become involved is mostly up to you.

I'm a recent "half transplant", having bought a place a little over a year ago. I'm still readjusting the rest of my life to use it effectively...

I always "dreamed" of lakefront, since so many vacation spots that I used with friends/family over the years were on lakes/ponds. It would be useful to figure out "why" lake is important, so you're looking at the right lake -- swimming, kayaking, power boating, or just the view? River front might be a good option. I dunno, that's totally personal.

We opted for no water (since 9 months of the year, water is only good for looking at, not going in, anyway). Though my wife points out that instead of lakefront, we instead have 4 acres of swamp. But I digress...

We're in Sugar Hill - 2 hrs 15 min from MA if I'm driving. right Next to Franconia, Bethlehem, Twin Mountain, etc. Not very many lakes/ponds in Sugar Hill (Streeter Pond and Coffin Pond), but the Gale River runs right by. The Franconia community has been nice, and there are enough services nearby (Franconia, Littleton)

Very convenient to XC skiing and hiking the Kinsman Ridge/Franconia Ridge areas, and only about 15 minutes from the Kanc. And 1.0 miles from Polly's Pancakes.

Though it's hard to get them to admit it (the realtor insisted there was no broadband service when we were buying), Time Warner Cable serves this area, so I actually have a better (and cheaper) Internet connection in middle-of-nowhere New Hampshire than just outside the big city of Boston. But I have to pay to plow all winter, and worry about keeping the place heated.

JCarter - check out the Internet Thermostats available. We use the ones by BAYweb (http://www.bayweb.com/) so that we can monitor the temp remotely - get alerted if the temp drops below a threshold - turn the temp up or down remotely by web or phone - allows you to add motion detectors - monitor the temp in the basement, under the sink, and even the hot tub! You get alerted in the even of it going offline due to a power outage or Internet outages. We've been able to lower the temp when we are not there significantly saving us several hundred $$$ in propane costs and have piece of mind that all is well.

JCarter said:

and worry about keeping the place heated.

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We heat with wood when there and leave the oil burner thermostat set at 52' when we're gone. I think we used about 150 gallons of oil last year.