silvretta 404 bindings

hello,

has anyone used these bindings with plastic mountaineering boots, especially with scarpa vegas/invernos??

i was thinking of buying a used pair to mount on a backcountry x/c ski i can buy deep discounted, might be a good set up for a fun approach to a hike...owls head anyone?

any thoughts and experience appreciated,

Me too. I don't have them mounted right now, but I had them on a heavy GS ski and used my Koflach Degres with them. The reason they aren't mounted now is that the skis were way too much for the binding/boot combo. I'm waiting to pick up something else for a ski.

I popped out of the 404s quite a bit, but I don't think it's b/c the boot doesn't fit the binding. I think the skis were just too stiff and twisting the boots just couldn't get the ski to turn, so they popped out. Now it didn't happen constantly, but certainly more than it should have...

I think most peole will tell you not to expect great skiing performance from a climbing boot. They will turn, but not aggressively.

good luck!

spencer

What's a reasonable price? I was asking at EMS this weekend about the same thing-- Is it possible to use a mountaneering/climbing boot with a telemark/cc binding? Like those derived from old 3pin style binding?For skiing into 13 falls, for instance.
Eliot

climbingbassist said:

Is it possible to use a mountaneering/climbing boot with a telemark/cc binding? Like those derived from old 3pin style binding?For skiing into 13 falls, for instance.

Click to expand...

Not in any meaningful way. You're much better with some sort of AT/Randonee setup but I'd go for the lightest ones possible since it doesn't sound like you need the ability to do turns or control the skis very much.

-dave-

3-pin bindings require a duckbill 75mm toe, so no, climbing boots won't work with 3-pin bindings.

although I'd guess there are people out there who have retrofitted setups to work.

I bought my Silvrettas new and you don't want to know what I paid for them. It was one of those gear purchases that hasn't paid off. I hang on to them hoping I get more use out of them in the future though.

here is a current Ebay search for [http://search.ebay.com/silvretta_W0QQsojsZ1QQfromZR40]Silvretta[/URL]

spencer

Why not hike in ski boots . . .

. . . instead of trying to ski in the hiking boots ?

My Garmont Excursions are pretty good walkers, and there are other lightweight double plastic BC XC or light tele boots out there, maybe T3 or T4 ?

I've not found the duck bill to be much of a problem walking - and if I have skied a ways in, I'm probably wearing snowshoes (or crampons) anyway, right?

I loosen the buckles a little, but some of these light plastic boots have some flex to begin with. If you want a lower boot cuff, say for a trip that is 25% skiing and 75% walking, you might see how your mountaineering boot liner fits in the ski boot shell. Mine fit great.

i read a post somewhere mentioning the 404 is a heavy binding for x/c skis.
any thoughts? is heavy bad for touring, uphill, downhill, turns or what?

would it be possible to switch out bindings when needed, or is it there to stay? i mean do skis have threaded holes that are metal sleeved to quickly unscrew a binding and put in another, or do the screws go directly into the ski?

i don't ski and apologize if these are simple questions.

Starchild,

The 404 is an alpine touring (AT) or rondonee (French) binding. It is basically a downhill binding with a hinge at the front and a heel lock. For downhill skiing, one locks the heel and it is effectively a downhill binding. The heel is unlocked for climbing or level travel (typically using skins) to allow a more natural stride.

An AT binding is mounted such that the center of the boot is over the center of the ski. An XC or Telemark binding (loose heel all the time) is mounted such that the pin line (just forward of the toe) is mounted on the center of the ski.

Not nearly as effective as an XC binding for easy touring. Modern AT and Telemark skis also tend to be rather heavy for touring--they are designed more for downhill turning.


Only a few models of skis have theaded inserts and different bindings frequently have different hole patterns. (75mm nordic norm (XC) defines a hole pattern, don't know if there are any standard hole patterns for AT bindings.) Usinally, one drills the ski to match the binding. If one wanted to switch frequently, one method would be to install threaded inserts for both bindings. The other approach would be to make adaptor plates.

Doug

Thanks for the replies to my questions about bindings/boots.
I have a nice pair of climbing boots, so I was hoping to avoid buying ski boots as well. I think there was a binding sold a few years ago which worked like a snowshoe binding, so it was intende for the flats, not downhill. I guess i was looking for a cheap way out(My climbing boots were really expensive).
I've looked on e-bay, but have been out bid.
Eliot

Ski boots and hiking/mountaineering boots are designed to do different things. If you try to force a boot to do both, one function or the other will be compromised.

If you want good skiing on harder terrain, it is probably worth getting ski boots.

Doug