Rescued - Does it count?

Yesterday hiking back on the road to the Santanoni parking lot and seeing all the snowmobile tracks gave me a thought.

If you climb a peak but need a rescue to get out, does it count for your 46 or 111? It got me thinking because of the thread where Grace sent a bunch of people back up Whiteface because they got a ride down.

I realize this probably sounds like a silly question and I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of needing a rescue, just a random thought.


-Shayne

I'm going with no on this one....it's the same as hiking up Cannon and taking the tram down.
Remember, getting to the summit means you're only halfway there.

I wouldn't count it.

I would think it does not "count." Similarly if you climb a peak but die before returning to civilization, although thankfully, that's a rare occurrence.

My opinion would be to go with the same construction JFK used when he announced the goal of the lunar landing, which was "...landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth."

TCD

It Counts...

...but only if you die during the course of the rescue!

cb

... and to take this further ...

Granted you have to climb and descent each mountain by your own power.

... but a mountain is qualified by 200 or 300 ft of gain over the col next to the highest neighboring peak. So the descent of a peak may only be 201 ft. So after descending the first peak and climbing the second one, isn't the first peak done?

So if you run the ridge and fall and get rescued after descending 300 ft from the last summit aren't you off the mountain? What about the first peaks of the day, certainly they were descended?

By the way, for the record, I'm pretty pure and think that none of them would count.

JHS

They wouldn't count. A person must hike up and down the mountain for it to count.
Although I remember Grace telling me of a man who died of a heart attack on the top of Saddleback his 46th Peak, many years ago, but was given a 46er Number, in memorandum.

Hi John S.
I agree with you completely.
There is the purest's view of doing the 48 that each summit must be done individually (no ridge walking). This avoids the "problem" of the 300 foot rule.
However, I don't think many people do it this way any more, so I would guess that we'll have to debate it endlessly.

The trailwrights list

Pucknuts,

The criteria of one peak per climb is the same criteria for the trailwrights list.

I think that by "practice" it only counts once you pop the top of a frosty beer at the trailhead while cleaning up and packing up your vehicle.

John H Swanson said:

... but a mountain is qualified by 200 or 300 ft of gain over the col next to the highest neighboring peak. So the descent of a peak may only be 201 ft. So after descending the first peak and climbing the second one, isn't the first peak done?

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Nope, at least under the most common reading of the AMC rules. You must make it back to a trailhead for the climb to count for the list. If you do one peak or a dozen during the hike, none of them count until you hit a trailhead and the hike is over. This way you can technically have multiple "hikes" during a single hike if you happen to cross roads along the way.

-dave-

If the hiker is hurt on the peak and there s/he lies...the peak would count for all thiry or so SAR people, right.

I think most people think of having "done" the peak when they get there, although various rule makers have proscribed conditions on getting off the mountain. For me it's when I get there, but if I have to be carried off, I'm sure I'd be too embarrased to admit I even went there in the first place, and would certainly go back.

If you die, that's different. For the person summiting, for all summiter knows or cares is he/she made it. As for what the rest of us think, I'm sure the climber couldn't care less.

If Mallory had made it (to Everest) I'm sure he died knowing he had made it. As for us, it's just input for endless speculation.

So if I die on (say) Katahdin, and let's say it was my 67th NE 4k, my obituary might say "Died a happy man on Katahdin, having finished the 67 highest New England peaks." At my funeral, you guys (and you are all invited) can argue "Ahh, but you know the AMC says blah, blah so he really didn't make it blah blah ...". Argue away, I really won't give a hoot.

Pb

OK Chris,
From your avitar, we know what your truck looks like, and if it's at a trailhead, we also know there'll be beer in it.

While hiking with my little diabetic in the whites. I make sure she is we;ll aware of her blood sugar levels. Why? Because the peak won;t count if I carry her sorry arse out of the woods. Rules say.. to and from on foot and without mechanical assitance.. hence the bicycle arguments.

Sherpa John

Skyclimber2971w said:

Although I remember Grace telling me of a man who died of a heart attack on the top of Saddleback his 46th Peak, many years ago, but was given a 46er Number

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From the 46er book: Of the Summits, of the Forests, The Forty-six Peaks chapter, Saddleback entry:

Keith D. Solomon was to have become a Forty-Sixer on Saddleback during the summer of 1980. However, having approached within 150 feet of the summit from Basin, he unfortunately suffered from and succumbed to a heart attack. Rangers from the Department of Environmental Conservation later carried his remains to the summit so that his body could be removed by helicopter, and soon after the Forty-Sixer executive committee voted Mr. Solomon a posthumous full membership in the club as Forty-Sixer number 1609.

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I agree with the requirement that a hiker must return to a trailhead to officially count the summits. The above account is no doubt a rare exception that was granted under extraordinary circumstances. We hikers are a curious lot; always eager and ready to celebrate. Perhaps we are overly self-confident in our ability to climb down from a summit. I have observed and participated in several Catskill 3500 and Adirondack 46er completion celebrations on summits. At other times I have seen a hiker reach a summit and exuberantly shout "Number 23" or some other number. I have yet to observe any such behavior at a trailhead after a hike. Go figure.

Have You Lived Here All Your Life? - Not Yet!

David M. is completely correct, but I think of it like Papa B. does.

If I had gone over the summits of The Bonds and was hiking out The Wilderness Trail and was a mile from the road and someone asked me if I had climbed any mountains that day I wouldn't say, "Not yet".

On the other hand, if someone came by in a Jeep and asked me if I wanted a lift I would say, "Not yet".

Count them when you get to the top, but un-count them if you cheat on the way out.

If in spaddock's inquiry the hiker made it out via snowmobile than I'd have to agree it doesn't count. If the hiker made it out under his or her own power, utilizing rescue services only for, say, resucitation, directions or replenishing the trail mix supply, then it should count.

As for dieing before the end of the hike it sounds like the consensus is for a post humorous award.

Stan said:

If in spaddock's inquiry the hiker made it out via snowmobile than I'd have to agree it doesn't count. If the hiker made it out under his or her own power, utilizing rescue services only for, say, resucitation, directions or replenishing the trail mix supply, then it should count.

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To take a climber's viewpoint, external aid is still external aid.

A more extreme example: Using porters to carry one's gear and supplies might not be against the rules, but the accomplisment is less than that of those who carried their own gear and supples.

Soloists on 8000M peaks have been known to refuse the offer of a cup of hot tea because they would not feel their climb was unaided.

Doug

Mark Schaefer said:

... We hikers are a curious lot; always eager and ready to celebrate. Perhaps we are overly self-confident in our ability to climb down from a summit. I have observed and participated in several Catskill 3500 and Adirondack 46er completion celebrations on summits. At other times I have seen a hiker reach a summit and exuberantly shout "Number 23" or some other number. I have yet to observe any such behavior at a trailhead after a hike. Go figure.

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My point exactly. I think our inner spirit knows we have made it when we get to the top. It has nothing to do with self-confidence. Getting down is just the practical, left brain at work. But thank goodness we do have both the spiritual and intellectual side at work.

GeorgeFitch said:

Count them when you get to the top, but un-count them if you cheat on the way out.

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Yes, I like that a lot. And of course the poor dead person never had a chance to "un-count it" so for him (maybe not for us) it counts.

Pb

46er position

The bylaws of the 46ers require that you ascend and descend the mountains for
them to count. The out however is a clause which permits membership to be
granted by the exec com.

I quote the bylaws, Article 3:
Eligibility for membership shall be limited to those who have climbed and descended the summits of the forty-six Adirondack Peaks (hereinafter called the major peaks) which have an altitude above sea level, of 4,000 feet or over, according to the USGS survey of the region concluded in 1897. The list of the "forty-six peaks" given in Russell M. L. Carson's "Peaks and People of the Adirondacks" is adopted as official for the purpose of membership in the Organization. The Executive Committee may designate as eligible for membership such other persons who have in its opinion demonstrated a comparable commitment to the purposes of the Organization.

Those who are climbing the forty six peaks are expected to correspond with the Organization. Those who have completed the major peaks must file a questionnaire and mountain list with the Office of the Historian thus becoming a "Recorded Adirondack Forty-Sixer" and will be assigned a climbing number.