Winter hiking dog question

I'm looking to tap into the experience of you winter dog owners that hike. My background, I have an Aussie, this is our second winter season hiking. Earlier this winter we hiked out of Crawfords and the temp when we started was -10 or so. Quickly into our hike, I noticed Buddy picking up his feet and licking them. I checked for ice balls and found none. I figured his feet where to cold, so I turned around. Since then, in temps under say 15 to 20 degree's he picks up his feet. I fear he frost nipped his feet on that very cold day. I use "Musher secret" but I'm not sure its enough in the very cold. This morning it was -7 at my house, out in the backyard for only 10 minutes again picking up his feet. OK, not to be long winded here, but what is the experience of your dogs in the cold and do you have a temp threash hold you wont go under? I want to hike, but do not want my dog to suffer at all. Any input would really help, this is my first hiking dog and even after 1 and a half years I'm still learning.

Gryffin picks his paws up like that any time its single-digit cold. Even in the minute or two it takes him to go out an do his business. He's 11 months now (golden retriever.)

Tim

bikehikeskifish said:

Gryffin picks his paws up like that any time its single-digit cold. Even in the minute or two it takes him to go out an do his business. He's 11 months now (golden retriever.)

Tim

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That helps to know.

yeah, my new dog (hound/lab/some-type of terrier mix) is always lifting a foot when it's been colder. She is a southern rescue dog, so this is the first winter she's experienced. Doesn't seem to bother her though, and it is mostly the back paws (left more than right).

I haven't taken her on any real hikes yet, just an hour or so in the woods.

I have taken our lab on fairly cold hikes. Last one was 5 miles w/gusty winds and temps probably 15 degrees w/o wind chill. She had no issues breaking trail through deep snow. I have thought about the booties though.

I have 2 dogs, but only one of them does the paw lift when it's really cold, and she only does it with her front paws - she'll pretty much walk on her hind legs to go do her business. I don't bring them hiking in the winter though.

I always wondered if dog booties were more for the cold or to prevent balling (or both equally).

Hana (Shar pei) does it too. She usually lifts one of her back paws but we have seen her occasionally lifting also her front paws.

Sammy (Golden Retriever) never does it. If his paws aren't well groomed he tends to develop ice balls so it is very important to check his paws' condition before going on a winter hike. When he does develop an ice ball he doesn't lift his paw. He lays down and pull the ice with his mouth.

Both dogs seem very comfortable in cold temperatures and this paw lifting doesn’t seem to be a response to any discomfort.

Marlie will lift her paws when it's cold and we stop for any legnth of time. I imagine I would too if I were standing in the snow barefoot. The same If the forcasted high is in the single didits or lower I will leave her home. I might even stay home myself. We hiked Liberty and Flume Saturday and it was roughly 5 degrees when we summited. Only when we stopped and I took off my pack on our second visit to Liberty did she start to pick up her feet. Once moving again she was fine. IMO Musher's Secret doesn't help with the cold, just the snowballing.

Musher's Secret does help with snowballing, but not with cold. I have used the Pawz booties recommended by Bob N Geri, but Gryffin shreds them pretty quickly, even in reasonable snow. They don't last 5 minutes on the road. His nails are not that long or that sharp either.

Tim

We have also used Pawz with some success for our 17lb Labradoodle. He is a lot happier with Pawz from the comfort standpoint. But, the bulletproof standard for our dog is Ultra Paws Rugged Dog Boot. These are quite substantial and they have double velcro straps to hold them on. The double straps seem to be the key. Quite often, we might start with the paws covered and remove the booties as the day progresses. We only go to the booties if we plan on being out over an hour. Also, are these dogs on or off leash? Our dog is typically off leash for the cold snowy adventures and I am sure that he is generating a lot more body heat as he is in constant motion while we trundle along.
I have never seen the foot lifting behavior and we are very regular early morning walkers, more often on the pavement than on snow, but we have seen plenty of below zero temps on our walks this winter.

Your situation sounds like cold rather than ice-balls. Mushers wax only helps with ice balls. Booties will help with cold and ice-balls. Rather than spending $20+ on a set of overpriced designer booties, you can get the ones mushers use for about $5 per set. Buying extras allows you to replace them when they become worn - or fall off in the snow!

Obviously, any salt makes the cold situation much worse because the brine stings and conducts heat away from the pads much faster than clean, dry snow. Again, booties are the best solution.

It will take your dog a little while to get used to wearing booties, and putting them on can be a challenge. But we carry a couple of sets on most winter outings. They're also good to cover pad injuries, or better yet, wear them on sharp surfaces to prevent cuts.

With Dusty - 17 pound poodle/bichon mix, we tried the hard soled boots and he mostly refused too walk and when he did made it clear he was unhappy. Started using Pawz booties and he is a happy camper. This year we started using a set of doggie socks under them so we could go up one size to protect more of the leg from balling - works great. @ $15 for 12 booties - they let the dogs use their claws for traction. We get 2 or 3 hikes out of a set of 4.

But - the only time Dusty has lifted his leg is when is he is licking ice of his legs or booties.

Dusty wears a coat from K9 Top Coat when the temps are below 20, a slightly heavier one for temps down to zero at the start. And we carry a larger one that can go over either in case it gets colder at the summit. We've yet to start a hike when it is below zero - but when we take him out to the bathroom in temps down to minus 20 he doesn't appear to be at all bothered by the cold.

Neither Duffy my Airedale nor Lauky my Welsh Terrier have ever had any problem with cold feet. I don't know if it's correct, but I always assumed that it was because there paws had been toughened by a lot of three season hiking. I always carry booties in my pack in case of need, but since I've never had to use them I can't really make any suggestions except to suggest experimenting until you find some that work. In past threads some folks have recommended taping them on. I can see that it would keep them on but it seems like it would make getting them off problematic especially if done often.

Well, I probably won't win a lot of friends now.

Dogs that are kept indoors most of the time are generally not adapted to subzero conditions and will often suffer cold injuries, including frostbite to feet, ears and even bellies in rare cases, as a result of being exposed to same.

Dogs with single coats are generally not suited for subzero conditions.

The easiest way for a dog to suffer cold injury to the feet is waiting around while the owner/handler is busy getting stuff out of the car at the trailhead at the cold start of the day. Keep the dog in the car until you're ready to hit the trail.

Dogs that are on leashes are more prone to cold injury because they have a harder time generating heat from movement. If your dog doesn't do a reliable off-lead recall, or there will be issues with other dogs or people on the trail, think about leaving the dog home on a cold day if it would have to be leashed, or pick another route.

Some cold injuries to the feet are permanent. This means that the dog will suffer from cold feet afterward at temperatures that other dogs can tolerate. You'll know when the feet come up and stay there.

Booties will help with the cold but they can be hazardous on some icy surfaces. Booties should be checked after putting them on to make sure they're not constricting blood flow (toe pads should be warm.)

Corollary note: When the vet reaches for the toenail clippers, grab the vet by the wrist and gently insist that the dog needs those nails for traction in the winter. Dogs that are active outdoors have no need for toenail clipping (except dewclaws), despite what you might have been told, and the nails go a long way to providing traction for safe footing. Take a look at a wolf or coyote mount in a museum sometime and you'll see the right length.

sardog1 said:

Well, I probably won't win a lot of friends now.

Dogs that are kept indoors most of the time are generally not adapted to subzero conditions and will often suffer cold injuries, including frostbite to feet, ears and even bellies in rare cases, as a result of being exposed to same.

Dogs with single coats are generally not suited for subzero conditions.

The easiest way for a dog to suffer cold injury to the feet is waiting around while the owner/handler is busy getting stuff out of the car at the trailhead at the cold start of the day. Keep the dog in the car until you're ready to hit the trail.

Dogs that are on leashes are more prone to cold injury because they have a harder time generating heat from movement. If your dog doesn't do a reliable off-lead recall, or there will be issues with other dogs or people on the trail, think about leaving the dog home on a cold day if it would have to be leashed, or pick another route.

Some cold injuries to the feet are permanent. This means that the dog will suffer from cold feet afterward at temperatures that other dogs can tolerate. You'll know when the feet come up and stay there.

Booties will help with the cold but they can be hazardous on some icy surfaces. Booties should be checked after putting them on to make sure they're not constricting blood flow (toe pads should be warm.)

Corollary note: When the vet reaches for the toenail clippers, grab the vet by the wrist and gently insist that the dog needs those nails for traction in the winter. Dogs that are active outdoors have no need for toenail clipping (except dewclaws), despite what you might have been told, and the nails go a long way to providing traction for safe footing. Take a look at a wolf or coyote mount in a museum sometime and you'll see the right length.

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I pretty well agree with everything in this quote although there are some nuances. Down here in the North Georgia mts. it seems to be pretty much the tradition to leave your dog outside all year round. While I haven't experienced any sub-zero temps it has gone down to zero at night. Some of the dogs run free and I've gotten to know them pretty well. I've noticed that even the short haired dogs have developed rather thick coats so it's obvious that the more the dog is outside the better adapted he is. For dogs like Lauky who spend the night inside there are some very good coats to keep them warm. Here's a link to Lauky's coat: http://www.k9topcoat.com/product.asp?specific=168
At the same time I've noticed every winter that as the winter progresses he seems to adapt to it and handles the cold better as the winter goes along.

Lauky does have to keep moving to stay warm the suggestion to leave him in the car until ready to leave and put him back in the car as soon as we return is a good one.

Good observation about dogs on a leash, it is harder to keep them warm. Lauky is one that has to be on a leash and there are some problems with that. I found that if the trail was packed out and he could charge ahead (even while attached) he did OK. We safely did all 48 in the winter with him on a leash. I did have to turn around a couple of times when he was obviously cold, but each time it was when I was breaking trail in deep snow up a steep slope and I just couldn't move fast enough for him to stay warm. When we turned around and went quickly down hill he was soon feeling comfortable. Of course shivering is an obvious indicator of being cold. But in addition to that Lauky is a dog that carries his tale erect straight up from his back. I could always tell if he was getting cold because the tail would drop. The tale was in the tail. When it was really cold I never stopped for more than 60 seconds even on all day hikes like the Bonds, we just kept moving.

As for booties and the need for the use of toe nails, I totally agree with the need on icy trails and steep hard packed trails for dogs to have the use of their claws. When in softer snow or moderately sloped trails I think most dogs can get by alright with them on. As I said above I never use them so I'm not speaking from experience here. When a dog is having trouble with cold pads I would think some experimenting with them would be worthwhile. I also think that if the dog is not wearing them they should be in your pack summer and winter in case of an injury to a pad.

Ed'n Lauky said:

I also think that if the dog is not wearing them they should be in your pack summer and winter in case of an injury to a pad.

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Good point. I remember to this day the blood nearly spurting out of a deeply cut pad. Never left home without at least one bootie afterward.

sardog1 and Ed'n Lauky- nicely said!