Guns on the trail

You don't need a reason that will satisfy anyone else for bringing one. It's their right to do so, and if they feel more secure and it's allowed by law, fine. Not my cup of tea (I don't own a gun) but I'm not going to push my beliefs on others. For some people, holster ing their firearm goes to a part of their daily routine, like getting dressed,grabbing their keys, and leaving the house. Going for a walk in the woods is no different.

Plus, I think we are past the "brandishing" term. I think we all can agree there is no need to brandish a firearm pretty much anywhere.

i have never seen anyone with an open carry of a gun on the trail in over 30 years of hiking. some carry them concealed, fine with me. one guy at work carries one when he walks his dogs in the woods, in case of coyotes. he has never had occasion to use it

People who are not used to, or have no experience with firearms often resort to many of the above comments. They use words and terms like, Fear, uncomfortable, no need, please don't. A firearm is a tool like any other you may use or may not use. I will say, I am never a fan of "open carry" outside of Law Enforcement, for many reasons. If you choose to carry, concealment is to me a requirement, its safer and also respectful to those who might not be comfortable around firearms. People who think there is no need whatsoever to carry in the backcountry, proboly feel there is no need to carry anywhere, that I'll leave be. While you may never find yourself in a dangerous situation, either with people or wildlife, someday you might, the resources and equipment you carry, may determine how well you come out it, if a Leatherman is your go to survival gear, good luck. The great thing about this country is you can carry or you can choose not to. I will say this as a final thought, if you choose not to carry, don't be one of those, Hey I don't do it, or like it, so you shouldn't be able to do it types, fear and ignorance are not qualified reasons to ban or stop anything.

sierra said:

...fear and ignorance are not qualified reasons to ban or stop anything.

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Outstanding. A quote I have always liked, "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed oprinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant." (Ellison)

Fear and ignorance at various times have banned women from voting, blacks from using drinking fountains, and homosexual couples from having rights equal to married M/F couples. I support all of those things as well as the right to open carry. I do not need to understand anyone's reasons for the above as they are undeniable rights IMO. Their reasons are just that, theirs.

One thing to consider: Unless the trail leaves from your backyard, you are probably driving to the trailhead. Maybe for hours, in the dark, etc. Once at the trailhead, you certainly don't want to leave your firearm in the car. That is stupid, and in some states illegal. So...you put it into your pack. Nobody knows, is offended, frightened, etc.

And, to the original question as to how many people actually hike with a firearm, I think the answer is: more than you think!

www.rugged-rob.smugmug.com

I ran into a heavy-set, middle-to-older-aged guy walking at low elevations on Giant Mountain in NY back in '04... he had a 6-shooter on his belt that when asked he said was, "For Bears".

This is a good, reasonable discussion.
I was looking at my gear. Most of what I carry I never use.
In 40 years of independent hiking, camping, hunting and fishing I can say I've only ever wanted/needed a hand gun once.
I encourage everyone to exercise their legal rights: If you don't, someone may decide for you that you don't need them.

And another open carrier at BLM this morning. Said he was afraid of bears....

sierra said:

People who are not used to, or have no experience with firearms often resort to many of the above comments. They use words and terms like, Fear, uncomfortable, no need, please don't. A firearm is a tool like any other you may use or may not use. I will say, I am never a fan of "open carry" outside of Law Enforcement, for many reasons. If you choose to carry, concealment is to me a requirement, its safer and also respectful to those who might not be comfortable around firearms. People who think there is no need whatsoever to carry in the backcountry, proboly feel there is no need to carry anywhere, that I'll leave be. While you may never find yourself in a dangerous situation, either with people or wildlife, someday you might, the resources and equipment you carry, may determine how well you come out it, if a Leatherman is your go to survival gear, good luck. The great thing about this country is you can carry or you can choose not to. I will say this as a final thought, if you choose not to carry, don't be one of those, Hey I don't do it, or like it, so you shouldn't be able to do it types, fear and ignorance are not qualified reasons to ban or stop anything.

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To say a gun is tool like any other is not fair. It is a weapon first and foremost. While other tools might be reasonably used for trail purposes, a gun does note seem to have one. If I saw someone with an ice axe in summer, I might ask them what it was for as no obvious reason immediately comes to mind. If they respond by saying 'I have a right to carry it' then I would be a little concerned by their poor reasoning skills.

I will admit that the reason of not wanting to leave the gun in the car makes sense, but again, put it in the pack please. If I am ignorant to any other reasons, please enlighten me.

I have limited experience with firearms, but they are not tools, they are weapons. As an example, on May 4, 1970, a group of Ohio National Guardsmen armed with M-1's shot and killed 4 unarmed students and wounded many others at Kent State University, my alma mater. One of those killed was a girl that I knew. I was in the building right next to where she was shot when this happened. These so-called trained soldiers opened fire indiscriminately on a group of people who were no threat to them at all. Do you have the right to carry a gun? Looks that way. Do I have the right to think you are paranoid and dangerous? Based on my experience, absolutely and I do.

Tom Rankin said:

And another open carrier at BLM this morning. Said he was afraid of bears....

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Is BLM in one of those counties there with their own/different open carry laws ?

The situation where I would've liked to have had a gun was regarding a large, rabid raccoon that staggered onto the trail near me during the middle of the day.
No paranoia there. It would have been better for the animal, me and any other passing hikers or animals if I was able to put it down.

I'm sure there are fewer guns on the trail in NY, VT & MA.

TomD said:

I have limited experience with firearms, but they are not tools, they are weapons. As an example, on May 4, 1970, a group of Ohio National Guardsmen armed with M-1's shot and killed 4 unarmed students and wounded many others at Kent State University, my alma mater. One of those killed was a girl that I knew. I was in the building right next to where she was shot when this happened. These so-called trained soldiers opened fire indiscriminately on a group of people who were no threat to them at all. Do you have the right to carry a gun? Looks that way. Do I have the right to think you are paranoid and dangerous? Based on my experience, absolutely and I do.

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Paranoid and dangerous? Look I'm an advocate of free speech, free rights and free thoughts of all, weather I agree with you or not on any of these issues. I can see how your history has formed your opinion, although to be honest, you've taken once case and used it to cover any situation involving firearms, benign or not. That being said, I am sorry about your friend. As far as a firearm being a tool, I'll conceed it can be a dangerous one in the wrong hands. But like in many other cases, the abuse of something by those who are bad, makes it tough for those who are responsible and dedicated to safety and caution. I was confronted while car camping alone far out ( 5 miles) from the nearest paved road in CO by two local thugs. They wanted money, they didn't get any. We all have histories that shape our mindset, that's what make us a diverse group.

The moderators understand and accept that guns are a volatile topic and that strong opinions either way are unlikely to be changed. Please keep the discussion focused on guns in the backcountry and/or while hiking.

And note that putting a gun in your backpack makes it a concealed weapon and you must have a concealed carry permit for that. We're primarily discussing open carry here since you would not ever know about concealed carriers for the most part.

Tim

TJsName said:

To say a gun is tool like any other is not fair. It is a weapon first and foremost. While other tools might be reasonably used for trail purposes, a gun does note seem to have one. If I saw someone with an ice axe in summer, I might ask them what it was for as no obvious reason immediately comes to mind. If they respond by saying 'I have a right to carry it' then I would be a little concerned by their poor reasoning skills.

I will admit that the reason of not wanting to leave the gun in the car makes sense, but again, put it in the pack please. If I am ignorant to any other reasons, please enlighten me.

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Potential reasons: afraid of coyotes; protection from an assault; force of habit (always with said person at all times); the idea that the safest place for your weapon is with you at all times and in plain sight; maybe someone's parent, grandparent, great-grandparent, etc. walked these same woods this way, and that's how they will, too. I suppose these are a few reasons why.

sierra said:

A firearm is a tool like any other you may use or may not use.

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Yes, but while a hammer can be used to build a house or crack a skull, a gun is a tool whose sole purpose is killing.

I used to go hunting with my father when I was too young to need a license, as a teenager I did competitive target shooting with .22s. I qualified as sharpshooter with an M-16, but haven't fired a rifle since Uncle Sam quit buying me ammunition.

Since I try to avoid hiking in hunting season in areas where hunting is common, I rarely see hunters on the trail. I am less afraid of the hunter that I can see (and can see me) than one 50 feet in the woods that doesn't know the trail is there and may shoot when they hear something move.

I met a trail worker once who carried a pistol in a shoulder holster for personal protection, maybe crooks are more common in CT where he was from. If I met someone carrying a pistol, it might be because they had a reasonable fear that someone was after them. Perhaps they have a foolish fear of attack by person or animal. Or maybe they are boldly asserting their right to carry. In any of these cases they may attract activity of a type I might prefer to avoid, so rather than ask why they need a firearm I'd just say hi and keep walking.

Many people are nervous around guns and react very negatively, there was an incident many years ago where a landowner was out hunting birds with a shotgun and came upon some people littering her riverbank property and exchanged words. Somehow this got put in the AMC canoeing guide as the landowner shooting at passing fishermen. I have a hunch that a more famous recent encounter involved overreacting by the hikers but not being there can't be sure.

Dug: All good reasons to carry and yes in pack is best so you don't scare those afraid of guns. I have carried when working alone doing maint. because of Rabid Fox's at the time, and I do have a permit.
I think the word '"tool" is what is in question and yes a gun is a tool but not for trail work.
I am more concerned by the words " I would be a little concerned by their poor reasoning skills". GEEEZ. Nuff said.

TrailwrightBratt said:

Dug: All good reasons to carry and yes in pack is best so you don't scare those afraid of guns. I have carried when working alone doing maint. because of Rabid Fox's at the time, and I do have a permit.
I think the word '"tool" is what is in question and yes a gun is a tool but not for trail work.
I am more concerned by the words " I would be a little concerned by their poor reasoning skills". GEEEZ. Nuff said.

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I'm not sure how prevalent coyote attacks are in NH, but I would hope that people who carry for those reasons base it on a realistic risk assessment. The threat from other people is definitely the biggest risk, IMO, but again, it's not clear to me if there are so many assaults on the trail that is warrants being armed everywhere all the time.

The habit piece is interesting, as there are people that carry everywhere they legally can. I appreciate the argument that part of being a responsible gun owner is keeping track of one's firearms, and I appreciate you advocating for carriers to keep it concealed. I take your comment on a the fox to mean there was a specific risk (as opposed to a general risk) of running into a rabid fox - did you only carry because of reports of rabid foxes? I certainly appreciate that rabid animals can be unpredictable and very aggressive.

To clarify my bit on reasoning, doing something simply because you have the right is not sufficient reason, as their are infinite ways one could exercise their various rights. Since the reason could be used for literally any legal activity, it is meaningless. I will concede that it is possible that their reasoning skills are fine, but they they just don't want to give me a good reason (which is also within their rights); however, I would not view this as a positive interaction and I would be on edge.

Also, thanks to the mods and everyone for keeping this pretty on topic and informative. I find everyone's personal experience very interesting!

This is not directed at anyone in particular, but.....It would be interesting to know how many of the people who are anti open carry on the trail make it a habit of driving home buzzed/drunk/over the legal limit after visiting the local bar&grill after hiking. One of the above-mentioned activities is perfectly legal, the other one not so much. And one of these activities is a serious real threat to hundreds maybe thousands of people, the other one not so much.

TJsName said:

doing something simply because you have the right is not sufficient reason, as their are infinite ways one could exercise their various rights. Since the reason could be used for literally any legal activity, it is meaningless.

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I disagree.
How can you exercise a right without...actually...exercising that right ?
Otherwise it would be called "atrophying a right."