Guns on the trail

Chip said:

I
I'm sure there are fewer guns on the trail in NY, VT & MA.

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I'm curious as to your reasoning. In VT concealed carry does not require a permit so it could be that everybody is packing and you wouldn't know.

SteveHiker said:

I'm curious as to your reasoning.
In VT concealed carry does not require a permit so it could be that everybody is packing and you wouldn't know.

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You are correct.
I mistakenly lumped VT in with NY & MA regarding stricter carry laws.
My bad. I apologize.
I guess the only thing I can say, in my defense, is that NH open carry seems to be more well known.

Chip said:

I disagree.
How can you exercise a right without...actually...exercising that right ?
Otherwise it would be called "atrophying a right."

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I can defend a right without exercising it. There are plenty of things I don't actively do that I like to have the option to do if needed. I don't think rights will atophy if they are not exercised. But they can if they are not defended legally.

Have you exercised all of your rights recently?

I know some very competent women hikers who are equally competent with a firearm, some of whom may be reading this thread. They carry concealed when hiking because of concerns about being seen as the 'weaker sex', alone and far from help in the back country. One is a law enforcement officer. To answer the replies about all the extra weight - Some of the camera lenses, hiking equipment and other 'extras' we all pack for our hikes weigh a lot more than many concealed carry handguns.
For the record, I'm uncomfortable running into someone wearing a holstered handgun on the trail. With the view that the gun is unlikely to stop a large, aggressive animal...and being out in the open, it's not there for self defense.

For example, 6oz unloaded: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec_P-32

Let's not have the thread start heading downhill. Here's what the OP asked. Let's try to stick with it:
1.how many hikers actually carry a firearm while hiking.
2.I'm curious is this a common practice?

So, in answer to the original question, I always carry a concealed firearm when hiking. I do so in the states in which I am licensed to do so (more than half). I also take it out west with me when I hike out there (yes, it goes as checked baggage). I have a friend who hikes in NH who also carries concealed, although sometimes on his hip, which I try to discourage.

I've never carried a firearm while hiking, I've never felt the need to do so, and I would discourage anyone I was hiking with from doing so. IMO, it's unnecessary weight for little potential benefit.

It's worth noting that the act of exercising one's right(s) does not necessarily lead to the preservation of said right. In California, for example, it was until quite recently within one's rights to walk the streets of San Francisco nude. However, over time certain people exercising this right in a certain way lead to a sufficient level of discomfort among the general public that this right was taken away by the voting public. It is within my rights to walk the streets of Boston in a Speedo, however were I to do this in a certain way in certain places, I imagine a referendum would be passed limiting said right. Although the right to bear arms is a constitutional right, it is within states' power to limit the degree to which this right may be exercised, and that can and has happened in certain New England states. For those reasons, I don't feel "because I don't want to lose the right" holds water as a reason to open carry on hiking trails. In fact, open carrying in a way that makes others uncomfortable (whether that discomfort is justified or not) may have the opposite effect.

Now there's a reason to hike in SF.

I've come across hunters on a couple of occasions and being a former hunter, I've never felt threatened. We talked and compared notes, they were doing nothing illegal. (I've had more trouble with motorized dirt bikes (their owners) on trails illegally than either hunters, non-hunting gun carriers or snowmobilers. I don't get the feeling people who have guns illegally are out on the trails & that 99% of the legal owners are fine, the likelihood that the 1% are on the same hiking trail as you is unlikely.)

I've never felt the need to carry any weapon beyond a small knife (okay an ice axe too but as gear not defense). That said, I was in NY this weekend hiking with several scouts. They say they had someone following them. (Five of them, 10 - 11 a few hundred yards behind me) My gut tells me as we had some distance between parties, they lost track of who in our group was behind them. (Only one hiker we met a couple of hours earlier, too cold for summer hikers) That said, as we left the trailhead, there were two DEC enforcement vehicles and officers in a lightly traveled area of the ADK's.

Occasionally, we read of incidents on the AT involving women. I've never been a 5' 110 pound women on the trail, so while I feel secure as a 6' 200+ (+++ now) male, I can't say, everyone should feel like me.

My greatest fear as a man who may have 2-3 days facial growth & not look GQ (I try not to) on the trail may be mistaken as being creepy. Years ago, in my walking in town - pre-hiking days, I'd walk in a suspect neighborhood in winter with a jacket and hoodie & virtually everyone crossed the street at night instead of passing me, I can be mistaken as that guy. If I'm making you feel uneasy, PLEASE tell me first.

Grey J : There are those who are collectors, target shooters and competitive users. I am all three. So I disagree that Guns are used only for killing.
It is standard practice for law enforcement sometimes to shoot at the Mass of the body to stop a person so to speak, rather than just to kill.
A few comments on this thread show a fear for guns. For that exact reason some one with thoughts of doing harm etc. may well have second thoughts about doing so when seeing a gun on a person.


Tjs: These were actual law enforcement warnings where they had to shoot rabid foxes in my area. I also carry on the hip while working alone due to the fact that a rabid animal of any kind may not give you time to dig it out of the pack while it is coming at you. I did have one experience when a fox came at me and for some reason turned away. I did not go after it after making loud shouts. It could have been a healthy one so I gave it the benefit of doubt.
As for the poor judgment issue I sometimes wonder who decides what is poor judgment over another?.

"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

I know people who carry due to concern of rabid animals. A family member successfully used his firearm for this purpose.
I know people who now carry on trails in the I-91 corridor due to the heroin epidemic.
I know people who have always carried since coming back home as decorated war heroes.

Those rights shall not be infringed.

We saw two men openly carrying handguns (strapped to their thighs) and bowie style knives heading from Washington towards Lakes. There was a woman with them who was looking for crystals by picking up rocks and smashing them down to break them open. I'm a talker so I spoke with them and asked why they felt they needed their weapons and the response was because they like to have them. I responded that I thought a lighter load was better, then inquired about the woman trying to break rocks. They kept going and so did I, in the opposite direction.

I grew up in a law enforcement family and responsible ownership and use of guns was a part of my upbringing....

I have never carried a firearm in the White mountains in 40 years of adult life and see no reason to do so. I believe that individuals who carry in the mountains for the most part have a misguided interpretation of the wilderness experience and are an accident going somewhere to happen.

TrailwrightBratt said:

Grey J : There are those who are collectors, target shooters and competitive users. I am all three. So I disagree that Guns are used only for killing.
It is standard practice for law enforcement sometimes to shoot at the Mass of the body to stop a person so to speak, rather than just to kill.
A few comments on this thread show a fear for guns. For that exact reason some one with thoughts of doing harm etc. may well have second thoughts about doing so when seeing a gun on a person.

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Collectors are not carrying, target practice is practice, and competition is organized and has rules. None of these uses apply to carrying a gun on the trail. I am not arguing against gun ownership. I responded to the use of the word "tool" and maintain that a gun is a tool for killing. My father was a policeman and he said their training was only to use a firearm with the intent to kill and never to disable. That only happens in the movies, so I disagree that its standard practice.

On the other hand, carrying for protection against rabid animals while doing solo trail work in a remote area actually makes sense to me. I suspect the difference of opinion here boils down to this: some people feel safer carrying a gun and other people feel safer when guns are not present. I have been hiking, often solo, for over 40 years and never once needed or wanted a gun on my hip or in my pack.

ps thanks for your work on the trails

The questions the O.P. posed were:

1.How many hikers actually carry a firearm while hiking.
2. Is this a common practice?

Those questions seem to have been answered.