Bridge Status In Pemi Wilderness

TJsName said:

And for the record, when I did Owl's head years ago (via the trails) I wasn't savvy enough to look at the gauges. We did it during a dry stretch in August, and we were able to rock-hop everything without issue, but it was very low water. Sadly I lost that book, so I don't have the date to check!

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I should point out too that when I did the official "trouble" crossings on the trail (at approx 500 cfs gage) it wasn't like I had to wade across the entire distance of the river knee deep. There were a few small pockets that deep. Most of it was well below that. I'm not the greatest rock hopper so I'll usually just walk through if several questionable leaps are involved (i.e. long distance, wet or sloping rocks, etc). More skilled crossers could have handled comfortably at this water level I'm sure. Smashing your tail bone on a rock is a real perspective changer!

You can actually type that “N44 07 15.3, W71 30 23.3" right into the Google Maps search box. You should get this:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/4...1.5064722,13z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

Unfortunately I could find no way in the "new" Google Maps to see the point and the terrain view at the same time (yet another failure of Google).

The latest version of google maps is a huge step backwards

Tom

MichaelJ said:

You can actually type that “N44 07 15.3, W71 30 23.3" right into the Google Maps search box. You should get this:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/4...1.5064722,13z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

Unfortunately I could find no way in the "new" Google Maps to see the point and the terrain view at the same time (yet another failure of Google).

Click to expand...

Many might find Acme Mapper to be more useful here:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=44.12091...=44.12091,-71.50648,N44 07 15.3\, W71 30 23.3
It will also accept a lat-lon in the search box.

It might also be worth checking near the confluence with Jumping Brook (about 1.9mi north of the above location). The trail used to cross here, but there is also a penciled note on the map indicating that there used to be a footbridge. I have crossed (I think it was) here, but it was on ice...

Doug

bikehikeskifish said:

What was the offense? Curiosity?

Tim

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Good question. The ranger never did tell me why. He simply asked for all my vitals and wrote them in his book. From the trail that runs along the river (east bank or south bank whatever you call it) there is or was a spur trail that goes over to the bridge. That trail was closed. However, I wasn't on any trail I was bushwhacking along the river so I hadn't technically violated any law that I know of. Whatever, I wasn't fined or anything at that time and I never heard anything of it afterwards.

DougPaul said:

Many might find Acme Mapper to be more useful here:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=44.12091...=44.12091,-71.50648,N44 07 15.3\, W71 30 23.3

Click to expand...

Cool map - I really enjoy the old maps to get a sense of how much things have changed. Not only the structures, but the trail routes themselves. The maps on my phone's GPS are the USGS maps, so I notice a lot of re-routes when my track doesn't match the trail. Generally I don't notice them while hiking though - unless I'm expecting a way point (like the Ethan Pond shelter spur, which appears to have been moved about .1 -.2 further west). I rely on the maps more for their topography than the trails and the structures noted on the map.

DougPaul said:

Many might find Acme Mapper to be more useful here:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=44.12091...=44.12091,-71.50648,N44 07 15.3\, W71 30 23.3
It will also accept a lat-lon in the search box.

It might also be worth checking near the confluence with Jumping Brook (about 1.9mi north of the above location). The trail used to cross here, but there is also a penciled note on the map indicating that there used to be a footbridge. I have crossed (I think it was) here, but it was on ice...

Doug

Click to expand...

Yet another map program. Wish CalTopo did this. Much prefer their site and formatting/printing options. It worked fine when I did on Google Maps but I don't especially care for Google Maps.

I have another question which is right up your alley Doug: Is there a Wiki article or some online reference discussing the different longtitude and latitude formats and what distance equates to for an increment (i.e. one minute equates to 1000' or whatever)? I know it is all gridded out but really don't know any particulars on the system. If you've come across that in your travels (and I suspect you have!) let me know. I'd like understand it in more depth....unless it is going to lead to an ice cream headache. Thanks.

Cal Topo will accept 44.120917, -71.506472 under ADD MARKER, and will accept N44 07 15.3, W71 30 23.3 in the GO (search) box, but not for ADD MARKER.

Tim

DayTrip said:

Yet another map program. Wish CalTopo did this. Much prefer their site and formatting/printing options. It worked fine when I did on Google Maps but I don't especially care for Google Maps.

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Yep, yet another map program... I have several locally and of course have access to the web-browser based maps. Google maps used to give one the options of topo, street, or aerial photo but has dropped the topos. Acme maps still gives all 3 (at least for North America).

I have another question which is right up your alley Doug: Is there a Wiki article or some online reference discussing the different longtitude and latitude formats and what distance equates to for an increment (i.e. one minute equates to 1000' or whatever)? I know it is all gridded out but really don't know any particulars on the system. If you've come across that in your travels (and I suspect you have!) let me know. I'd like understand it in more depth....unless it is going to lead to an ice cream headache. Thanks.

Click to expand...

I learned enough of this stuff long enough ago that I'm not sure where to look... Some of it was for nautical navigation:
* Chapman Piloting (book)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapman_Piloting
* Bowditch's American Practical Navigator (book)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowditch's_American_Practical_Navigator

Wikipedia has a useful looking article: Geographic coordinate system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lat-lon

Some key concepts are Datum (zero references), coordinate systems (lat-lon, UTM), and map projections. Degrees of lat-lon are specified as dd.dddd..., dd mm.mmmm..., or dd mm ss.sss.... (Just search Wikipedia for the concept names.)


You can also figure out some of distances by yourself with a little bit of arithmetic. The earth is ~25000 statute miles (40000 km) in circumference. http://geography.about.com/library/faq/blqzcircumference.htm Thus (25000mi)/(360 degrees)/(60 minutes/degree) = 1.157 statute miles/minute = 1 nautical mile. (1 nautical mile = 1.151 statue miles).

The meter was originally defined to be 1 ten-millionth of the distance from the equator to the North Pole and the nautical mile was originally defined to be one minute of a N-S meridian of the earth. (Thus the above arithmetic...)

Doug

MichaelJ said:

You can actually type that “N44 07 15.3, W71 30 23.3" right into the Google Maps search box. You should get this:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/4...1.5064722,13z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

Unfortunately I could find no way in the "new" Google Maps to see the point and the terrain view at the same time (yet another failure of Google).

Click to expand...

Use Classic Mode. If you don't know how to, well, you can Google for it.

bikehikeskifish said:

IME, 800 CFPS means the FINAL crossing of Lincoln Brook will be doable without major wetting of boots (I.e., Black Pond BW to Lincoln Brook Trail.) I don't think it implies anything about the other two (which I have not done).

Tim

Click to expand...

To emphasize Tim's comment, using the water gauge as a reference is SITE SPECIFIC.

I made this mistake. I knew I was comfortable with the final Lincoln Brook crossing based on a certain water gauge flow (a lot lower than Tim's 800 CS) and I assumed that meant I would be good at another river crossing at a different place in the PEMI. Well each crossing has its own geopgraphy AND each one is draining a different amount of surface area.

There are some places I just do not go if I know a big storm is forecasted, like the Wild River drainage.

Tom_Murphy said:

To emphasize Tim's comment, using the water gauge as a reference is SITE SPECIFIC.

I made this mistake. I knew I was comfortable with the final Lincoln Brook crossing based on a certain water gauge flow (a lot lower than Tim's 800 CS) and I assumed that meant I would be good at another river crossing at a different place in the PEMI. Well each crossing has its own geopgraphy AND each one is draining a different amount of surface area.

There are some places I just do not go if I know a big storm is forecasted, like the Wild River drainage.

Click to expand...

Good advice. Even though I don't know when I did Owl's head actually, you can took a look at past trip reports and see what the gauge was at to get a rough idea of the correlation between ease of crossing and gauge height.

Just this weekend I had a conversation about water levels a gauges and realized that the other person was looking at Plymouth while I was looking at Lincoln.

Tim

DougPaul said:

Yep, yet another map program... I have several locally and of course have access to the web-browser based maps. Google maps used to give one the options of topo, street, or aerial photo but has dropped the topos. Acme maps still gives all 3 (at least for North America).


I learned enough of this stuff long enough ago that I'm not sure where to look... Some of it was for nautical navigation:
* Chapman Piloting (book)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapman_Piloting
* Bowditch's American Practical Navigator (book)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowditch's_American_Practical_Navigator

Wikipedia has a useful looking article: Geographic coordinate system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lat-lon

Some key concepts are Datum (zero references), coordinate systems (lat-lon, UTM), and map projections. Degrees of lat-lon are specified as dd.dddd..., dd mm.mmmm..., or dd mm ss.sss.... (Just search Wikipedia for the concept names.)


You can also figure out some of distances by yourself with a little bit of arithmetic. The earth is ~25000 statute miles (40000 km) in circumference. http://geography.about.com/library/faq/blqzcircumference.htm Thus (25000mi)/(360 degrees)/(60 minutes/degree) = 1.157 statute miles/minute = 1 nautical mile. (1 nautical mile = 1.151 statue miles).

The meter was originally defined to be 1 ten-millionth of the distance from the equator to the North Pole and the nautical mile was originally defined to be one minute of a N-S meridian of the earth. (Thus the above arithmetic...)

Doug

Click to expand...

There's my ice cream headache! I knew you'd come through for me. Thanks. Will check all of these out when I have time to sit down and let it sink in properly.

DougPaul said:

You can also figure out some of distances by yourself with a little bit of arithmetic. The earth is ~25000 statute miles (40000 km) in circumference. http://geography.about.com/library/faq/blqzcircumference.htm Thus (25000mi)/(360 degrees)/(60 minutes/degree) = 1.157 statute miles/minute = 1 nautical mile. (1 nautical mile = 1.151 statue miles).

Click to expand...

At the equator. Around our latitude of N44° one minute of longitude is around 0.82 statute miles.

MichaelJ said:

At the equator. Around our latitude of N44° one minute of longitude is around 0.82 statute miles.

Click to expand...

The north-south distances are the same everywhere. East-west distances must be multiplied by the cosine of the latitiude.

Crossed Thoreau Falls footbridge yesterday. Good shape...all the bridges on the Zealand Trail and Ethan Pond Trail were great. Ditto the log crossings. No problems anywhere.

Last I checked, plugging latitude and longitude coordinates into Google Earth works fine to pull up a location.

MichaelJ said:

At the equator. Around our latitude of N44° one minute of longitude is around 0.82 statute miles.

Click to expand...

DougPaul said:

The north-south distances are the same everywhere. East-west distances must be multiplied by the cosine of the latitiude.

Click to expand...

While the above is true, a navigator never needs to use it.

A nautical navigator sitting at a chart table can measure distance between two locations by using dividers to transfer the distance from the chart (map) to a N-S minute scale. This works for any latitude and heading as long as the map projection has the same scale for N-S and E-W. (Most local area maps have the same scales--see map projections: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projections) While a hiker may not bring a chart table and set of dividers, it is easy to approximate the procedure in the field. It is equivalent to transferring a distance on a map to the map's distance scale.

Doug

Good afternoon folks;
Hope you can help me. I'd like to do a two day hike from Lincoln Woods to Zealand Falls hut. I was thinking of taking the east side trail and staying overnight where I would cross the East Branch to get to the Thoreau Falls trail. However, I read that one should avoid the East side trail north of the Franconia Brook east campsite because the trail is so bad. They recommended going up the west side of the East Branch instead. My map doesn't show a trail going east at the point where the Bondcliff trail turns sharp left. Would it be their intent then that I should cross the east branch at that point to get onto the Wilderness trail and then cross the East Branch again to get to the Thoreau Falls trail OR is there a section of the trail not being shown on my map between where the Bondcliff trail takes a left turn and the Thoreau trail begins??? Also, I read that there was a big washout on the Thoreau trail after "Irene" and I am concerned that I might not be able to find the trail at that point. Let me note that I am 75 years young and I hike alone. So, with that information I hope you all can understand that I cannot afford to take any chances of running into trouble in an area as desolate as this and where I could not expect to get help any time soon! I welcome any advice from you folks and thanks in advance. Gordon "Renaissance Man" Ripley