Proposed radio and helicopter clearings on Cabot, Carr, and Carrigain

I don't know how we all missed this one.

Administrative Radio Repeater Improvement Project

The project scope is “Install 3 new radio repeaters and relocate and enhance 1 existing repeater to increase FS radio coverage on the WMNF where good coverage is lacking and allow for Forestwide communication; includes clearing trees for helicopter use and new sites.” You may have seen such repeaters on Moosilauke, Middle Sister, Hitchcock, Tecumseh, or East Royce. They're not too obnoxious; however, the actual proposed work is rather appalling - it involves not just clearings for the radio repeaters, but also for helicopters, on Cabot, Carr, and Carrigain.

On Carr, the repeater would be right there by the old tower footings; however, they would also

Create a helicopter landing zone adjacent to the Carr Mountain Trail approximately 0.7 miles west of the summit. The area is currently forested and would have to be cleared. The resulting 100’ clearing would be directly adjacent to the trail. The maintained 75’ clearing could incorporate a forested buffer between the trail and the clearing.

Click to expand...

Carrigain's repeater would be mounted under the observation platform; however, they would also

Create a helicopter landing zone centered on the Signal Ridge Trail, on Signal Ridge, approximately 0.5 miles down from the summit. The area is currently forested and would have to be cleared. The resulting 100’ clearing would be centered on the trail, as would the maintained 75’ clearing.

Click to expand...

Over on Cabot there would be even more clearing as they would

Place the shelter on or very near the summit of Mount Cabot. Available imagery indicates that the summit is currently forested and would have to be cleared. The resulting 30’ clearing would be approximately centered on the summit. Create a helicopter landing zone within a mile of the summit. Available imagery indicates that the area is currently forested and would have to be cleared. The resulting 100’ clearing would likely be adjacent to the Mount Cabot Trail, as would the maintained 75’ clearing.

Click to expand...

The scoping document said comments had to be in by Feb 28, 2014; however, the SOPA indicates this is in the comments period through 8/2014.

I for one would not want to see a 100' clearing on Signal Ridge, nor the summit of Cabot cleared off.

*The construction-time helicopter clearing is 100', but is then only maintained to 75'. The repeater itself gets a 30' clearing on Cabot.

I had seen reference to the project but not the scope, thanks for posting it.

In the kilkenny region the national guard used to routinely build helispots on Terrace mountain prior to the kilkenny ridge trail. When we blazed the original route on North terrace the summit was cut level with the ground. It is now a dense spruce/fir stand. I believe that South Terrace also had been a helispot previously.

The summit of Cabot will now be a lot easier to find. If they must cut the Cabot ridge I would vote to have the clearing and reap eater correspond with the former tower site. What once was a unobscured view east and west has been growing for many years. opening up that area would be far less obtrusive.

I will point out that a clearing on Signal Ridge will open up the view west. There used to be a obscured view west towards the Hancocks from that section of ridge that has grown in substantially over the years

Note that this activity would have negative impacts on Bicknell's Thrush habitat, which is inconsistent with the forest plan. Solution? Apparently they will just amend the forest plan to exempt this particular clearing.

Therefore the following site-specific Forest Plan amendment is proposed as part
of this alternative (italics indicate proposed amendment text):
S-1: Projects must not result in a net decrease of suitable Bicknell’s
thrush habitat. The radio shelter and associated helicopter
landing site at Mount Cabot and helicopter landing site near
Mount Carrigain are the only allowed exceptions to this
standard.

Click to expand...

cushetunk said:

Note that this activity would have negative impacts on Bicknell's Thrush habitat, which is inconsistent with the forest plan. Solution? Apparently they will just amend the forest plan to exempt this particular clearing.

Click to expand...

The Bicknell's Thrush 'protection area' only applies to non-goverment entities at this point. If you're a private land owner or a private operator, good luck trying to do anything with that land. If you're government, the Bicknell's Thrush 'protection area' is a base canard. Just recently, Cannon Mountain ski area (state owned/operated) granted itself a waiver in the Bicknell's Thrush habitat (on former WMNF land that was supposedly protected from any new cutting as part of the land swap agreement), paving the way for widespread clearing. A few helipads in the WMNF are a drop in the bucket in comparison.

rocket21 said:

The Bicknell's Thrush 'protection area' only applies to non-goverment entities at this point. If you're a private land owner or a private operator, good luck trying to do anything with that land. If you're government, the Bicknell's Thrush 'protection area' is a base canard. Just recently, Cannon Mountain ski area (state owned/operated) granted itself a waiver in the Bicknell's Thrush habitat (on former WMNF land that was supposedly protected from any new cutting as part of the land swap agreement), paving the way for widespread clearing. A few helipads in the WMNF are a drop in the bucket in comparison.

Click to expand...

{Warning: cynical comments coming}

I hope at this point no one is surprised by these double standards.

On a somewhat related note, take a look at who is allowed to move freshly cut wood across state lines and who is not. Hint: generally, you are not. Others are. Same wood.

I reached my critical mass of BS long ago.

{all done}

I hope the clearings do not impact the habitat negatively. Open Views are nice, biodiversity and habitat protection are essential.

Raven said:

{Warning: cynical comments coming}

I hope at this point no one is surprised by these double standards.

On a somewhat related note, take a look at who is allowed to move freshly cut wood across state lines and who is not. Hint: generally, you are not. Others are. Same wood.

I reached my critical mass of BS long ago.

{all done}

I hope the clearings do not impact the habitat negatively. Open Views are nice, biodiversity and habitat protection are essential.

Click to expand...

I'm sure they'll be very careful to give the birds proper notice before doing any bom-- err, I mean --cutting.

Well, hopefully that will give Carr some views *again*!!!!!!

Is this the same Forest Service that sees fit to remove bridges in the Wilderness, and then needs to clear land at high elevations for dubious purposes?

How much can something weigh if they are mounting it to the tower on Carrigain? The other two I guess I'm okay with but Signal Ridge is the best part of the Carrigain experience IMO, the most natural at least.

So here's a question - does anyone know where any existing helicopter clearings are for repeaters? I've been to the East Royce repeater and my guess is the helicopter can land right there on the open rock. There was definitely vegetation removal there, but I'm not sure it was very much? Middle Sister anywhere along the open ridgeline? Loon or Tecumseh wouldn't need one, they'd go up the service roads. I can see Hitchcock's repeater on Google Earth, the large wooden landing pad is quite obvious, which leads to the question of whether these other clearings would have such structures as well?

MichaelJ said:

I can see Hitchcock's repeater on Google Earth, the large wooden landing pad is quite obvious, which leads to the question of whether these other clearings would have such structures as well?

Click to expand...

Coords? I can't see it on a satellite photo.

Mike P. said:

How much can something weigh if they are mounting it to the tower on Carrigain? The other two I guess I'm okay with but Signal Ridge is the best part of the Carrigain experience IMO, the most natural at least.

Click to expand...

The repeater is something that can be carried in backpack, the somewhat bulkier part is a photovoltaic array to charge the batteries and the definitely heavier part is some VRLA lead acid batteries. Depending on the application this could be 4 or more truck sized batteries. The number of batteries is based on the usage and the number of days that the panels get sun. An extended cold stretch in the winter with no sun or frosted panels can burn up a battery bank quickly. There are also some minor electrical components, at a minimum a charge controller the size of a smart phone. The batteries and electronics usually are mounted in a vandal resistant enclosure as no matter where systems like these get mounted there is always some moron who wants to break into them. The enclosure would be mounted on the ground with conduit running to the antenna and the PV panels. There is some wind loading added to the tower from the panels but given the towers size I expect its well within the capacity of the structure. Hopefully the FS doesn't use the same contractor as the one who rebuilt the tower and cut corners.

Depending on how well the panels are mounted and the system is designed, the batteries may last from 3 to 10 years. Unless there is vandalism all the other components have a 20 plus life

I'm curious as to the AMC's position on this...

This is a joke, right? A helicopter landing zone on Signal Ridge? Good grief, you have got to be kidding me! It's one of the most splendid spots in the Whites. Now, maybe I'm a little biased since Carrigain was my first 4K peak. Back then you could sleep in the enclosed tower, and drink the water (unfiltered) from the warden's well. But seriously, how can this be?? You can't have a bridge across a river, but you can cut down trees for a helicopter?? I suppose they will also install a wind-sock as well as landing lights (sarcasm). Yeah, I would like to know the AMC position too.

www.rugged-rob.smugmug.com

What is the purpose of these landing zones?

Read through the scoping documents and the reason for the landing areas is pretty well spelled out. Its for maintenance of the equipment.

These are all former firetower peaks, so, having equipment up there is nothing new even if there isn't much equipment up there now other than old footings, for the most part. There were probably firewarden cabins and other things nearby when active firetowers, as well. Basically anything with a similar footprint shouldn't be a big deal. Besides, they are not in Wilderness areas (unlike the "offensive" bridges and shelters they have removed).

The Hitchcock helipad is pretty neat - pretty good views too

And, unlike the fire wardens of yesteryear, we can't really expect the poor maintenance fellers to [gasp!] WALK up to those sites...

They'll walk up if you carry all the materials...

For Carr Mt., the map shows the LZ to the east of the summit, while the report says .7 west of the summit...or do I have my directions mixed up??