I do know the Rangers put vehicles in lots and catalog the contents to catch car thieves. They will sometimes leave something attractive on the passenger seat. It is quite possible all he was doing was documenting the vehicle.
Rangers taking pictures of plates?
- Thread starter sierra
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Raven
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I'm all for law enforcement keeping an eye out for parking lot thieves, especially in problematic lots, but I'm disappointed to hear they leave out bait and tempt potential criminals. It would seem this would leave an obvious entrapment defense. Leaving something of value in clear sight on the passenger seat may induce someone to commit a crime who otherwise normally would not....said the defense.
BooZiggy
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After reading "Ranger Confidential" I'll give the men and women who do that job a little latitude. They deal with a lot of crap that wouldn't occur to most of us.
On the "armed ranger" front... My wife and I were crossing the bridge heading back to the Lincoln Woods parking area after doing the Bonds this past August. Coming across the bridge heading out onto the trail was a large man, 6' 3" probably, jacked, fully strapped- side arm, lots of extra magazines, backpack, and was carrying what looked like an AR-15 or similar. My wife and I figured the litter-bugs were in for some serious sh*t!!! Seriously, this guy was all biz- if he said, "Skip the cat-hole son, eat that...." I'd just say, "Yes, sir." Hahaha.
On the "armed ranger" front... My wife and I were crossing the bridge heading back to the Lincoln Woods parking area after doing the Bonds this past August. Coming across the bridge heading out onto the trail was a large man, 6' 3" probably, jacked, fully strapped- side arm, lots of extra magazines, backpack, and was carrying what looked like an AR-15 or similar. My wife and I figured the litter-bugs were in for some serious sh*t!!! Seriously, this guy was all biz- if he said, "Skip the cat-hole son, eat that...." I'd just say, "Yes, sir." Hahaha.
summitseeker
New member
Whoa! I can say that I have never even seen an armed ranger, let alone one decked out in tactical gear all Rambo style. 
That must have been a surprise.
Z
That must have been a surprise.
Z
Nessmuk
Active member
Whoa.... so if said person sees an iphone or a wallet in a locked car, you say he would not commit what is clearly a crime, but somehow the temptation is just too great if it happens to be otherwise the same vehicle put there by law enforcement. So that allows him to flash the "entrapment" card, and therefore has committed no crime??? Give me a break. A crime is a crime. Would you feel the same about poachers shooting at robotic deer from a vehicle and across a highway? There are plenty of such "setup" cases caught by rangers resulting in firm convictions, not ruled as entrapment.
I just don't get the "us versus them" attitude when encountering a ranger or other law enforcement person who is clearly performing the job they were hired to do - protecting us and the environment according to the law. Get to know a ranger, seek them out and spend a few minutes in conversation instead of avoiding them when you see them at the trailhead or in the woods. You might be pleasantly surprised. You never know when you might really need one.
I don't have issues with setting up bait vehicles in parking lots to catch folks from breaking into cars. Generally its takes months to catch someone working the lots as the lots are remote by nature.
I have seen more than a few folks getting stranded in a parking lot at the end of the day with a broken window looking at trying to find a way to block up a window and having to drive home. I expect they too would support active attempts at catching folks.
I have seen more than a few folks getting stranded in a parking lot at the end of the day with a broken window looking at trying to find a way to block up a window and having to drive home. I expect they too would support active attempts at catching folks.
Raven
Well-known member
With all due respect, you are making far too much assumption regarding my post, a bridge way too far. I'm merely saying this kind of thing falls directly within the legal definition of entrapment.
I think it would do people well to relax.
Edit: As I said in my first post, I'm all for law enforcement keeping an eye out for problem areas. I'm in full support of that.
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DayTrip
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I have only seen 1 ranger in my hiking in the Whites (on Gulfside Trail on a beautiful Saturday) and 2 rangers checking parking lots/collecting fees (I've averaged 25 hikes/year past few years). Would not categorize the Whites as oppressive by any means. I do tend to avoid the ultra popular trailheads though.
sierra
Well-known member
Before I went anywhere else, I shared that same feeling.
SteveR
New member
Curiously, the only time I've been pinched (and fined) resting in my vehicle at a trailhead wasn't here.... It was in Colorado.
I'm with Sierra on this. Out west, there are many fewer restrictions, and no one ever seems to question your activities. I often fly into Vegas and get a 4WD, pick up my camping stuff at Fed Ex, and park in the Mojave or on the Mojave Road or even off Route 66 pretty much anywhere between California and Arizona without breaking any rules or being closely questioned by any authority.
No, it really doesn't. No court would support this defense in a situation like this.
A friend of mine had his car broken into at Champney falls a couple summers ago. The finally caught the guy a few months back.
Snowflea
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Sounds like you've never ventured into the High Sierra.
It's about the most regulated area I've ever hiked (one could argue for good reason). While weaving through (grandfathered) grazing cattle in the La Garita Wilderness on a Colorado Trail thru hike, I wished for more "restriction." I would opine that comparing East and West is like apples and oranges.
To the original post, I would have walked up and asked the ranger what s/he was up to.
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Sounds like you've never ventured into the High Sierra.
I would opine that comparing East and West is like apples and oranges.
To the original post, I would have walked up and asked the ranger what s/he was up to.
Ok, I should point out I'm talking about the Southwest--outside of the numerous military ranges of course.
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BISCUT
Member
I'm very much against entrapment but I don't see this as an entrapment scheme. Leaving something of value in clear sight of a motor vehicle parked at a trial head is pretty consistent with what a potential thief would encounter in real life. There is no ruse employed; bag guy has to have bad intentions. A large percentage of us look into the interior of others cars because we are nosy and like to see what other cars look like. But how many of us look into a car, see a GPS and say, I'm thinking I can steal that! Only a thief does that. Non-thief's, we make comments like "This dude is an ASS for leaving XXXX in the open like that! Someone's going to steal it!"
I'm actually glad to hear they are doing this in the WMNF. Unfortunately we are in world of heavy heroin use, especially Central VT, and as pharma corps are being pressured to make more and more of their wares less consumable (tablet turns to gel thwarting a snort) to the addict; the heroin trade grows and grows. Sooner or later that deck of "H" will not be $15-20 EA but more like $40 EA. When that happens, petty crimes like car breaks skyrocket. And we (hikers) are the ultimate target, as we are parked, hitting the trail, and not coming back for hours.
IMHO this is a good one by LE. But I also like to NOT feel like I'm watched. And I have NOT had good experiences with NHSP. Just sayin!!
......ya never know. Wait until the Drones are deployed.
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?16558-125-for-a-trinkle-at-Lincoln-Woods&highlight=fined
BISCUT
Member
Don't get me on drones brotha! I don't like the Gov't automation at all. I don't believe we should have the LPR (plate readers) out there either. If the cops want to get my azz they need to earn it. Not have a device alert them i didn't pay the $37 for my annual NYS inspection! Red light cameras? Hell no! All about control IN THE NAME OF PUBLIC SAFETY.
Since 911 there has been a tremendous subjugation of federal duties thrust upon local LE and it has moved local LE more toward militarization which keeps cops from normal, every day engagement in non-confrontational situations with the public. Add that just about every Governor puts extreme pressure upon SP agencies to extract lots and lots of revenue (tickets) from their own people; no wonder so may now have a very different view of popo than the historical past.
"OFF SOAP BOX"
RFID's have already have been embedded in many States contained within Driver's Licenses and Vehicule Registration stickers. Just a matter of time IMO before it's all tied in to a central data base. They'll have to take me kicking and screaming before one gets embedded in my neck though.
MadRiver
New member
I came back to my car after a day of hiking to find the car next to me with their keys in the door. Yes in the outside door. It was a nice car that could have found its way to a lovely chop shop if it wasn’t for the extremely honest person who saw the keys. I put them in the console and left a note that wasn’t readily seen from outside. Although I did leave my number, I never heard from them. My integrity is worth more than a car.
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