Feeling that "wilderness experience" in the Whites

A personal gripe
To me a wilderness experience is hiking alone or with people I know to remote locations where there is no one. Camping beside brook or on a mountain and being able to listen to the sounds of nature at night in stead of other people. Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind seeing people, even every day and I enjoy talking to people when I meet them. But there is a big difference between an occasional meeting and being part of a caravan of people.
I live in Maine but have never gone to Baxter State park. Why? Because there are an infinite number of other places where you don’t need a reservation, in fact there are no people ever. The views are just as good and the wilderness experience is 100 times better in other places.
I have also avoided the White Mountains for the same reason. Well, I went hiking in the Whites the day before yesterday for the first time (and last time) and could not believe how many people were there. Now my son tells me it’s 100 times worse in the summer! How anyone could call this a wilderness experience is beyond me.
Ever see a Fisher or a pair of porcupine in a tree? Ever had a moose trot past your tent at night? Ever had a Bob cat jump on your tent in the middle of the night, or herd a pack of coyotes nearby? I have and there are places on the A.T. in Maine where you still can, but why people flock to places that are so over crowded simply astounds me. I guess it’s better than living in the middle of the city but not much in my book. They can keep the Whites with all the crowds and I’ll keep my mountain clearings seldom visited valleys. I hope they have a great "wilderness experience"
There it’s off my chest, sorry.

Dude, just bushwhack in the Whites, and you'll avoid the crowds. Even staying on trails, I've had several instances where I've hardly run into anyone, and at times, no one.

Yep, you're missing out on Baxter. That's a shame. You should check it out sometime.

Eye of Beholder...

"Wilderness Experience", is in the eye of the beholder IMHO. I don't know why one would demean one form(s) and how others may feel about their experience in the woods/outdoors.

The views are just as good and the wilderness experience is 100 times better in other places.

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Don't know exactly how you can make this statement...if you, as you say, have never been to Baxter.

I betcha there are people living in cabins w/o electricity, miles from a road and no computer access, "living with nature", who would question your "wilderness experience". Does that lessen your experiences? I hope not.

Now I am going to watch "Alone in the Wilderness". (9:00pm PBS). See what a "true" experience is all about.

Nothing to add.

Just wanted my 100th post.

I hiked Carrigan last Sunday -- one of the most popular summits in the White Mountains -- and only saw one person the entire day.

I had Bondcliff to myself (and my girlfriend) the entire day in November. A crystal clear, warm, beautiful day -- saw no other hikers the entire day (18 mile hike)

Saw no single human being the entire day on Mt. Garfield & Galehead on a beautiful, warm, sunny and again -- crystal clear -- day in November. Again -- a fairly popular summit in the Whites.

Saw one other hiker (in addition to Dalraida) on a Friday Afternoon on Moosilauke. Cold but crystal clear -- again, very popular summit.

Hiked Katahdin on a gorgeous day in September -- saw about 4 other people at the summit.

Did a presidential traverse on a nice, mid-summer day. Except for Washington Summit, saw only a handful of people.

Mt. Marcy in the Adirondacks on Memorial Day: zero people. Mt. Haystack (best summit in the Adirondacks) on a beautiful, crystal clear day -- nobody.

Dude, you just have to know when to go and where. In general, if I want to avoid people -- even on a popular summit -- I'm pretty good about finding the date, day of the week and time-of-day to do it. And anyway, the people I usually come across on the trails are generally pretty nice and good for a chat for a minute or two before moving on.

If you want to see nobody, bushwhack.

-Dr. Wu

There are hundreds of places to winter camp in the Whites (where you won't see a soul). Just curious, where did you go?

I also HIGHLY recommend BSP (especially in winter), regardless of all of the paperwork. The experience is 1000 times worth the inconvenience...

finding solace in the whites

Frodo -
Great quote in your signature...God, I miss Rodney...he finally gets respect.

As for the subject of this thread I agree with most that there is plenty of solitude in the Whites, it is all in where you go. Last fall I hiked a nine hour day looping our from Carter Notch. After I summited Carter Dome I did not see another soul until I got back to the hut that evening. The trails in the Wild River area are empty. Have also done big hikes in the Great Gulf and seen very few people over a long day. I cannot wait to hit the Bonds later this Spring for the same reason.

Places to avoid, as they are always crowded...Mossilauke in summer, pretty much anything in Franconia Notch State Park (although FRanconia Ridge is woth it, no matter how many people are there), the Southern Presidentials, etc. Obviously, timing is everything...summer and fall weekends are brutal...if you really do not want to see anyone try doing some midweek hikes.

sapblatt said:

Places to avoid, as they are always crowded...Mossilauke in summer, pretty much anything in Franconia Notch State Park (although FRanconia Ridge is woth it, no matter how many people are there), the Southern Presidentials, etc. Obviously, timing is everything...summer and fall weekends are brutal...if you really do not want to see anyone try doing some midweek hikes.

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I agree but disagree slightly: If you get going at the crack of dawn during the summer time, you won't see much traffic at all on Franconia or the Presidentials. You'll see some people, for sure (especially campers and hut people) but you won't get the swarming crowds as they seem to prefer times a little later in the day.

-Dr. Wu

What about the poor porcupine?

Crusoe said:

A personal gripe
To me a wilderness experience is hiking alone or with people I know to remote locations where there is no one. Camping beside brook or on a mountain and being able to listen to the sounds of nature at night in stead of other people. Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind seeing people, even every day and I enjoy talking to people when I meet them... How anyone could call this a wilderness experience is beyond me.
Ever see ... a pair of porcupine in a tree?

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Wow. I wonder if seeing you -- or just seeing the other porcupine -- ruined the "wilderness experience" for the porcupine?

How any porcupine could call that a wilderness experience is beyond me.

Crusoe said:

A personal gripe

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Speaking on behalf of the mountains (someone has to do it), did it ever occur to you that YOU might be the problem? you don't seem any different from the untold thousands who pack up the car and take without giving so long as there remains at least one favored spot that meets their approval. If you have found such a spot then please stay there and consume all you want. We need protectors here, and defenders, and real lovers.. folks who don't waste time bitching. C

My word!

First of all.. TIMING IS EVERYTHING! Those of us who start our hikes at earlier hours in the morning, only run into people as we are making our descent of whichever peak or area. Those of us who start later... see people going up AND coming down therefore bumping into more people.

If I may suggest..Perhaps you should take more caution to investigate where people DON'T usualy go rather than where they frequent. For instance.. spend the night in the Pmei Wilderness somewhere around the base of owls head... count the people then, or who about in the Great Gulf or Dry River Wilderness, or Isolation on the ROcky BRanch Ridge.

Simply put... at least 8 MILLION people live in the Northeast, account for how many hike.. and where they intend to go... won;t be long before they find that place called BSP.. that is.. if you can get theyah from heah! And they let you in of course.

SJ

Hi-

This is my first post on this thing, but I read it almost daily and enjoy all topics as I become a more avid hiker every day. I must agree with most of the responses on here saying that there is quite a bit of wilderness in the White Moutains...esp considering we have set up 4 major wilderness regions in NH alone. Over 100,000 acres of New Hampshire wilderness can never be touched again, specifically the Pemi, Sandwich Range, Presidential Dry River and the Great Gulf Wilderness. New Hampshire's wilderness totals are more than VT, ME and NY combined which have a total of about 92,000 acres of wilderness. Over 59,000 of those acres are in VT. There are no wilderness in the 'dacks. Im sure there is some explantion to this but its just interesting to ponder. So NH does have wilderness, actual saved wilderness.

As for wilderness experiences, maybe my luck is good, but I see things nearly everytime I go out. From simple sightings of spruce grouse to more rare things like moose or black bear, I've seen it all. I agree with SherpaJohn saying to camp in the Pemi to see wildlife.... I did this once but the location will not be disclosed My hiking partner and I saw a baby moose, its mother during the late afternoon and had a big (BIG) bullmoose almost stumble ON our tent around 11 pm. And how did we do that...we bushwhacked for 1/2 of a mile on easy terrain...the wild stuff in NH is out there and I'm sure its in Maine, Vermont and New York as well. Just give everyone credit, esp when credit is due.

yes

I would have to say 'yes' to most all the wildlife questions...except the Bob Cat one.... the one I remember walked around my bivy bag not on it.
Was yours a tad near sighted ?
Ever walk along and realize there's a bear up ahead then turn around and find that a much larger one is blocking the way behind you?
Ever have a Bald Eagle land on the tree beside you ?

The 'Fisher Cat'.... yeah... had one in the yard a while back...

Ever broken the silence of a misty morning on the water with a spoken word only to hear a Moose rise up out of the mud a few feet from you?

Ever watch a Merlin swoop the water for a dragon fly , and watch it pluck it's wings off before eating it?

Ever get out of Maine much??

I have never been more alone than in a crowded room.
I have never felt more part of something than on a deserted cliff.
I have stood and stared and seen nothing.
I have closed my eyes and seen it all.

There is beauty in a mountain.
There is beauty in a snowflake.
There is beauty in everything in between.

Beauty, solitude, wilderness.
They are all a state of mind.

Open your mind.

I'm going to jump in and post before this gets too deep for me!

I love people, and like meeting them on the trails, especially little kids and very old people, who inspire me and give me hope, respectively!

There are also times when I want to be alone in the woods.

Each of us is the problem, and each of us is the solution.

Artex was right on the money, and really closed this discussion out early on.

Want people? - hike trails
Want "solitude"? - bushwhack

(Want real solitude? Bushwhack at night, on a rainy Wednesday in November.)

grouseking said:

There are no wilderness in the 'dacks.

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Are you sure of this? The Adirondack park has 6 million acres in it. More than a little of that is designated as wilderness. Not Federally designated wilderness but how different could state designated wilderness be from federal.

There's a lot of large untrailed areas there, I'm not sure if I'd say there no wilderness there, both in terms of designation and what is actually there there's a good case for wilderness in the ADKs.

We aim to please.

I think you may have missed out on the charm of the Whites. You should give them another chance. Please let us know when you want to try out the WMNF again. We could probably all get together and get the word out for people to hike elsewhere.

Durn...

McRat said:

Please let us know when you want to try out the WMNF again. We could probably all get together and get the word out for people to hike elsewhere.

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...wish I'd said that

Crusoe said:

Ever had a Bob cat jump on your tent in the middle of the night,

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NO! Thank God!

-Wu