Thoreau Falls Bridge Removal?

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Will said:

The "hiking public" referred to are largely dead, but to me it's still the Wilderness Trail.

One of the very few times I've been proud of my adult-lifetime membership in the AMC is when they resisted the name change. For a little while.

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Time for me to dig out that copy of "Zen an the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance".

Commenting here on Views From The Top isn't going to get things changed. Send the USFS your comments. I just finished my letter to the White Mountain National Forest, stating that if the current bridge is removed, then it needs to be replaced. Please support me by sending your own comments.

We are in the 11th hour and if you would like to have a voice on the Thoreau Falls Trail bridge removal please send your brief comments to Senator Kelly Ayotte

https://www.ayotte.senate.gov/?p=contact

I have been the MMNF volunteer maintainer of the Thoreau Falls Trail for the past 7 years, and even if the bridge is removed, I still plan on maintaining the trail as long as it is officially open.

Removing the bridge will deter some from accessing the trail, but will create a major safety hazard to the others who attempt access it.

I've noticed that just in the last 5 years, the crowds have become, well overwhelming. I have not done FR in awhile, I pass through the notch and laugh at the cars lined up on the highway. I mean, if you see that many car's overflowing into LP and along the highway, you still want to climb FR? Not me. I passed some large groups last week on the trails as I hiked for the whole week, weekdays are now the new weekend. I've also noticed the lack of politeness from these large groups. I passed one group of 12 or so and the leader said to me " you should have let us pass first" as I passed with my dog. Oh really, how about I just go about my business as I have for 35 years and you let me pass. I never paid attention to who has the right away, up, down, I don't know or care. Somehow, me and all the nice people I met, just figured it out and smiled at each other while we did. Not now, they may be new to hiking, but they know it all. I guess if your on FB all the time talking about hiking, you must be an expert. Sorry for the rant, whew.

sierra said:

I've noticed that just in the last 5 years, the crowds have become, well overwhelming. I have not done FR in awhile, I pass through the notch and laugh at the cars lined up on the highway. I mean, if you see that many car's overflowing into LP and along the highway, you still want to climb FR? Not me. I passed some large groups last week on the trails as I hiked for the whole week, weekdays are now the new weekend. I've also noticed the lack of politeness from these large groups. I passed one group of 12 or so and the leader said to me " you should have let us pass first" as I passed with my dog. Oh really, how about I just go about my business as I have for 35 years and you let me pass. I never paid attention to who has the right away, up, down, I don't know or care. Somehow, me and all the nice people I met, just figured it out and smiled at each other while we did. Not now, they may be new to hiking, but they know it all. I guess if your on FB all the time talking about hiking, you must be an expert. Sorry for the rant, whew.

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I can appreciate the "rant". I haven't hiked the traditional Franconia Loop in 3 years. Crowds have really gotten huge, almost ridiculous. I did a loop in Great Gulf this past Sunday and saw over 20 people well beyond the Osgood, Madison Gulf junctions where many head up and out and actually found trash in several places. Was very discouraging in such a pristine area. Going home at almost 9PM the 19MB trailhead still had 20+ cars with some people packing up, Pinkham was still 1/3 full, etc. Even Imp had cars. Last week I did Galehead (which was packed ) and pretty much every trail head I drove by on my ride was overflowing onto the street. My biggest gripe is on the summits. People set up all over the trail and block it, it's loud, empty wrappers in the rocks.....really ruins the experience for me. I've been avoiding a lot of the summits of late just to maintain some solitude. And in the woods some of the tent sites are starting to look like shanty towns on the weekends. The last time I went through the Mizpah Spring Hut area I actually thought it was a junkyard for storage for the hut it looked so horrible.

Everyone says to hike midweek (not a real option for me 99% of the time) or do sunrise/sunsets but even these have many people now. I did a sunset hike of Lafayette late last OCT via Skoochumchuck Trail on a fairly cold and windy Saturday night and saw 20 people (although thankfully I got about 25 minutes to myself before another group arrived). I've been doing more and more non-traditional routes to try and avoid the masses. Not sure where this trend ends. I love the Whites but I'm going to need to start exploring some alternate locations in other states if it continues to get progressively more crowded. I don't want the "Mount Washington Experience" on every mountain I climb.

I don't think it's all that recent. I've told the story before of stopping my count at 100 people on the top of Lafayette, with 12 dogs (mine included) one summer day in July, mid-week. I saw dozens more people, in and around the summit area after I stopped.

This was 20 years ago.

Very interesting turn for this thread. At Cardigan we see no noticeable increase in hiker #s. What concerns me about the increase in the Whites is the increased impact on the trails themselves, and what is or is not being done to tend them in these conditions. OBP and Falling Waters especially are quite vulnerable, I hear Falling Waters got AMC pro crew attention (last year?). How are other trails doing? newenglandtrailconditions.com reports sound like most are getting the attention they need on time.

DayTrip said:

I love the Whites but I'm going to need to start exploring some alternate locations in other states if it continues to get progressively more crowded. I don't want the "Mount Washington Experience" on every mountain I climb.

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It looks like you found the solution to the problem. There are more mountains that are just as beautiful if not more so (especially galehead!) than a lot of the 48 4ks. Be a part of the solution and hike somewhere else. You may just find another area you like just as much if not more.

thegibba said:

It looks like you found the solution to the problem. There are more mountains that are just as beautiful if not more so (especially galehead!) than a lot of the 48 4ks. Be a part of the solution and hike somewhere else. You may just find another area you like just as much if not more.

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Exactly - get off the beaten path(s). Redlining is a great way to explore that less traveled trails. You can still do some spectacular hikes, but without traveling on the highly-trafficked (and often eroded) trails that lead most directly to the 4k'ers. I probably wouldn't have used the Thoreau Falls bridge if it wasn't for redlining. The trail is just absolutely beautiful and remote. I'd still do it even without the bridge - just requires considering the water level a bit more. The middle of the Shoal Pond Trail gets a little less of an enthusiastic plug, but you'll likely get a lot of solitude.

thegibba said:

It looks like you found the solution to the problem. There are more mountains that are just as beautiful if not more so (especially galehead!) than a lot of the 48 4ks. Be a part of the solution and hike somewhere else. You may just find another area you like just as much if not more.

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Yes indeed, a good solution ... if not for the crowds but for those who choose to hike elsewhere. The appearance of popular mountains on multiple lists only compounds the problem. After completing the NE 100 Highest we started our own list: Places We Haven't Hiked Before. Can't be found here, on Facebook, or anywhere else but in my collection of maps and, as great a variety as there are, we rarely compare them to other hikes ... just appreciate and enjoy each for its own beautiful place on earth and whatever adventure, uniqueness, satisfaction and companionship it may offer.

Hmmm, in the winter packed trails is good. In the summer, not good.

thegibba said:

It looks like you found the solution to the problem. There are more mountains that are just as beautiful if not more so (especially galehead!) than a lot of the 48 4ks. Be a part of the solution and hike somewhere else. You may just find another area you like just as much if not more.

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I have. I've started doing a lot more local hiking here in CT in some parks and trails near my house and have been doing the less traditional routes to summits for a few years now. I know "doing the lists" get a lot of criticism by many but the most important by product of doing them for me was being "forced" into new areas I would otherwise likely not have gone.

And to Craeg's point about the condition of the trails I think they are starting to see the impact. A lot more washed out areas, everyone building there own little cairns to be whimsical and free spirited, references in trail reports of people doing "trail maintenance" that is not being properly conducted (i.e. those branches were pissing me off so I cut them off), painting on rocks like on Bond last year, views being cut on trails like Tecumseh without authorization, etc. I wouldn't call it rampant but I've certainly noticed it more in the 5 years or so that I have been a more serious hiker of the Whites. Maybe this stuff has been going on for decades and I'm just seeing it now with the increased mileage I've done of late but I've definitely noticed areas with an increased impact.

Easy access to these areas will only exacerbate these changes. Maybe loosing bridges will limit the damage to some of these areas from casual hikers checking off peaks on a list so they can Facebook their "accomplishments" to their friends. Seems like quite a few people nowadays are not hiking for the enjoyment of being with nature and seeing the world.. They want to "rip up the trail', "bag peaks" and tell everyone how fast they did mountains on their "solo traverses". Bragging about hiking never really entered the equation for me and quite frankly annoys me reading about it.

DayTrip said:

...Maybe loosing bridges will limit the damage to some of these areas from casual hikers

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Some say that's the real reasoning behind the bridge removals. Selfishly, I would be down with that. Hell, don't just tear down the bridges, tear down the trails as well. Trails to me are just easy ways of getting from one general area I'm going to explore to another. Stop trail maintenance altogether, keep the asshats out, and my personal backpacking experiences are improved immensely. I don't need trails and I don't need bridges (of the purely convenience type being discussed here).

But, ah there's the rub, we are not alone and such selfishness is not an option (except for sociopaths and apparently the czars ruling the Pemi). We live on this earth with others and need to to share. Widespread use of the outdoors is going to have detrimental effects on the outdoors. I hate that as much as anybody but it belongs to all of us. Including the asshats.

Will, you are expressing in a few words the dilemma faced by land managers and others who care for the land: which is better, preservation, wilderness, keeping most people out? Or admitting that that is impossible so let us mitigate their impact while teaching them to use the land respectfully (and recruit more conservation volunteers from among them)? My heart is with you especially in climes with far fewer trees than here. But my head is realistic, so I am a volunteer trailworker. Oh well, we find our fun and quality of life where we can.

I can tell you that the Thoreau Falls trail is lightly used as it is. If the bridge is gone it will be a pain in the ass, to be honest. Maybe get get back on topic and write the WMNF and the NH senator as Frodo suggested.

Frodo said:

We are in the 11th hour and if you would like to have a voice on the Thoreau Falls Trail bridge removal please send your brief comments to Senator Kelly Ayotte

https://www.ayotte.senate.gov/?p=contact

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So I did. I hesitated whether this was "Environmental" or "Fish/Wldlife," but went with the former. I hiked your Trail last summer finally and loved it - excellently restored after what I could see were extreme Irene rigors. It was a sunny Saturday but i met only one other hiker - backpacking S-N as I day-hiked N-S - all day. The Bridge was an essential highlight.

Our only opportunity to loosen the grip of the bureaucrats, immune from any real accountability, who influence and in some cases dictate more and more of our lives is to vote for or at least appeal to the elected officials who are in theory their bosses.

Amicus said:

So I did. I hesitated whether this was "Environmental" or "Fish/Wldlife," but went with the former. I hiked your Trail last summer finally and loved it - excellently restored after what I could see were extreme Irene rigors. It was a sunny Saturday but i met only one other hiker - backpacking S-N as I day-hiked N-S - all day. The Bridge was an essential highlight.

Our only opportunity to loosen the grip of the bureaucrats, immune from any real accountability, who influence and in some cases dictate more and more of our lives is to vote for or at least appeal to the elected officials who are in theory their bosses.

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Thanks Amicus

Rhetoric (pronounced /ˈrɛtərɪk/) is the art of discourse, an art that aims to improve the capability of writers or speakers to inform, persuade, or motivate particular audiences in specific situations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric

If find it interesting that the issues with Thoreau Falls is coinciding with the AMC's proposal for a new Hut. Interesting Land Use issues for the future of the WMNF happening within the same time space continuum. Only musing off the top of my head without actual Maps and lines in front of me of the exact boundary lines; but both situations are very close geographically. Definitively different land use issues but within the same neck of the woods. Although the distinct difference IMO is WMNF-Wilderness Area vs. NH State Park Land.
Certainly a challenge where words on paper and digitally mean a lot these days. I have commented on all the links and I am trying to keep myself abreast of the situations. I encourage everyone to do so. It's our forest but certainly for you and I to use appropriately. Let's keep it that way.

September 11, 2015

Dear [Amicus]:

Thank you for contacting me regarding the Thoreau Falls Bridge in the White Mountain National Forest. I appreciate hearing from you.

You may be interested to know, on September 8, 2015, I sent a letter to U.S. Department of Agriculture, which includes the U.S. Forest Service, urging the repair and preservation of the Thoreau Falls Bridge. I have attached a copy of the letter for your convenience.

Again, thank you for taking the time to contact me. It is important for me to hear from you regarding the current issues affecting New Hampshire and our nation. Please do not hesitate to be in touch again if I may be of further assistance.

Sincerely,
Signature
Kelly A. Ayotte
U. S. Senator

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The Senator's letter to D. Crandall of the Dept. of Agriculture is great, but it's long and I'm having trouble pasting it. She points out the dangers to hikers who will rely for years on older guidebooks and maps, the fact that repair would cost hardly more, if anything, than removal, and draws negative parallels with the Pemi Bridge removal, including lack of the requisite cost-benefit analysis, among other objections to removal.

This just in from U.S. Senator Kelly Ayotte:

September 11, 2015

Dear __ ____________:

Thank you for contacting me regarding the Thoreau Falls Bridge in the White Mountain National Forest. I appreciate hearing from you.

You may be interested to know, on September 8, 2015, I sent a letter to U.S. Department of Agriculture, which includes the U.S. Forest Service, urging the repair and preservation of the Thoreau Falls Bridge. I have attached a copy of the letter for your convenience.

Again, thank you for taking the time to contact me. It is important for me to hear from you regarding the current issues affecting New Hampshire and our nation. Please do not hesitate to be in touch again if I may be of further assistance.

Sincerely,
Signature
Kelly A. Ayotte
U. S. Senator