Carrigain to Vose Spur?

I'm planning to get my last NEHH in a few weeks with my 15yo grandson. Figured I try to give him Carrigain with the trip. He has done 8 4ks, and the PATN BW with me.
I've seen several post of a vose spur-carrigain loop and it seems doable. But I think it may be easier doing Carrigain first with less elevation gain in the actual bushwhack.
the total BW looks like only 2.5 miles. 1.5 to VS and 1.0 down from VS. Any thoughts on this approach?

Its been awhile but when I did it 15 years ago, there was no herd path. It is thick but not Scar Ridge thick. There appears to be one but it leads to boot leg campsites and toilet spots. It is consistently thick with a few steep slopes. The rock field is loose. We headed down vose spur from the summit to Carrigan Notch and quickly picked up a herd path which reportedly is easy to lose when going up. It does make for easy navigation just head for new signal ridge junction and avoid going westerly to quickly as the walls of the notch are ledgy. Its a nice hike plan as you get to see some nice territory but I don't think it save any effort over an up and down.

A reminder that Signal Ridge trail is typical dry after the stream on the long switchback. The water source at the old fire wardens cabin site is not definitely not potable and has to be treated if you really need it. Far better to carry enough as its akin treating water down hill from an outhouse.

I would suggest going up Vose Spur & then from VS to Carrigain. It's harder to make a navigational error going uphill than down. The herd path up VS spur isn't evident at first, but you'll get funneled into it on the ascent. If you're descending, it might be easier to miss. Finally, one you reach the summit of Carrigain, you get to enjoy the easy descent on a trail.

I agree that other things being equal, it's much easier to bushwhack down a steep pitch than uphill.

I led this route as an AMC trip in Sept. 2010. At that time, the spruce was fairly intense (~7 on a scale of 1 to 10) coming off of the Carrigain summit, along with some similarly difficult, steep stick forest approaching and then heading down off of the NE Carrigain summit. Navigation (with the exception of having to wander the relatively large/flat Vose summit looking for the canister) was not a challenge, due principally to the fact that our route was almost always to follow the spine of a ridge -- Carrigain's NE ridge, then Vose's SE ridge until we made a final turn to intercept the Carrigain Notch Trail. Along the route, we encountered interesting slides coming off NE Carrigain into the Vose col, as well as on our route down from Vose.

The group really enjoyed this bold variety of bushwhacking features: spruce, stick forest, slides, herd path, ridge terrain, steep woods -- and coincidentally, it was also a splendid day for ascending Signal Ridge and enjoying the views from the Carrigain summit. From the rock slide below Vose, we were also treated to some a dramatic view of the fortress-like face of Signal Ridge that we had traversed just hours prior.

Though only 11-miles on paper, it was epic. The group summited Carrigain in 3.5 hours, then took 3 hrs to reach Vose, 2:15 to get down to Carrigain Notch, then another 1:20 to complete the hike. Counting view breaks, it was an 11-hour day. I chuckled to myself at how nearly textbook the bushwhacking times turned out to be -- 0.5mph is a good rule of thumb to use in planning unless you know of specific, really hard obstacles -- but you don't expect your actuals to hit that dead-on.

So anyway, my recommendations would be twofold. First, it's a big day, so do yourself the favor of starting as early in the morning as possible in order to allow yourself maximum contingency time on the back end ahead of sunset. And second, don't do this if there's rain in the forecast -- wait for a clear day.

Alex

This is fairly advanced BW route. Most of previous respondents are highly skilled. I would classify as not for beginners. Std route to Vose spur is suitable for beginners not necessarily you, but thinking mainly of your 15 yo companion. there is nice slide you might hit on way up which offers fine views. What if you twist an ankle. What is this kid supposed to do? Don't think there is cell coverage in this region.

When bushwhacking up a mountain (from Vose to Carrigain), generally, all paths converge on the same point (assuming one summit). However, when bushwhacking down, the lines spread out and it is much more difficult to hit a targeted point. You can simply continue down into a ravine without realizing you went past (and below) the point you wanted to reach (Vose Spur). You can't however keep climbing up past the summit of Carrigain.

I'd agree with some others here and suggest bushwhacking Vose to Carrigain and hiking out the Signal Ridge trail, which will seem easy at that point and reward you with the stunning views along the way out. You don't want to miss Vose spur bushwhacking down hill and get into trouble, especially with a newer hiker.

I have the opposite opinion, If you want to include Carrigan, do it before but it will add effort to compared to just doing Vose Spur. There are several steep scrubby slopes that are a lot easier to go down then up between Carrigan and Vose Spur. Accidently dropping into Carrigan Notch is not a issue if you run a compass bearing heading down (or use a GPS). I find that I can find herd paths heading down far easier than heading up. Thus it comes down to style.

peakbagger said:

I have the opposite opinion, If you want to include Carrigan, do it before but it will add effort to compared to just doing Vose Spur. There are several steep scrubby slopes that are a lot easier to go down then up between Carrigan and Vose Spur. Accidently dropping into Carrigan Notch is not a issue if you run a compass bearing heading down (or use a GPS). I find that I can find herd paths heading down far easier than heading up. Thus it comes down to style.

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I agree with that, especially descending herd paths, but I am primarily thinking of the 15 year old in this case and am putting a lot of weight on not getting into a potentially difficult navigational situation.

Raven said:

I agree with that, especially descending herd paths, but I am primarily thinking of the 15 year old in this case and am putting a lot of weight on not getting into a potentially difficult navigational situation.

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I found the nav and contingency provisions on this route to be very straightforward. Assuming that the OP is facile with a compass and was OK with the nav on all the other NE100 bushwhacks, then imo the nav on this one is not a concern.

The only sense in which I view this route to be 'advanced' is in regard to its sheer size: the day took 11 hrs for a group whose on-trail pace capability was ~85% of (i.e., ~20% faster than) WMG book time. Hence the two recommendations I made: start really early so that there's as much back-end contingency daylight time as possible (consider even heading out on the SRT at or before dawn), and hold out for a dry day.

Alex

alexmtn said:

I found the nav and contingency provisions on this route to be very straightforward. Assuming that the OP is facile with a compass and was OK with the nav on all the other NE100 bushwhacks, then imo the nav on this one is not a concern.
Alex

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Good to know it's a relatively easier off trail bushwhack. I will admit I've not the ridge in between Vose and Carrigain, only the herd path up and down Vose, and that was more than a decade ago. If I were doing it with a minor in particular (or other newbie), I'd make sure we both knew how to use map and compass in the event the adult becomes incapacitated off trail. That's good form whether heading up or down. I'm probably being overly cautious regarding a bushwhack not needing huge skill, but for the record I am much more likely personally to take risks when solo than I am when with an adolescent.

I wouldn't want to be one easy fall away from a situation wherein I've put a 15 year old without the ability to navigate off trail in charge in a rescue situation. This is somewhat devil's advocate, but in reality, I try to keep myself two moves away from a potentially dangerous situation. I may be being overly cautious. The reality is that ISlowHiker is going to have to do a risk/benefit analysis based on what he knows of his abilities and his grandson's against the advice he receives about the route.

I completely agree about an early start and good weather day. I would further consider adding a third person or making sure both are solid navigationally. That may already be the case.

Thanks all for the input. I was hoping to do this this weekend but it will have to wait a week. I think I am leaning to do a CW loop (Carrigain then Vose) My biggest concern is time - I really am a slow hiker on uphill trails (but probably typical speed in the actual bushwhack). So - I may decide to do Vose first then decide if we really want to continue to Carrigain then. Or, even Carrigain first . I wouldn't mind coming back for Vose another day if I thought both would be too much for him. I don't mind a long hike -walking out by headlamp, but the boy may suffer from WIFI withdrawal if it drags on too long.
My plan between Carrigain and Vose is to follow the ridge down as best we can then follow a bearing to the peak as best we can. I do have a GPS and a track of this route from jmdds on wikiloc, but am confident I could follow it without the track. Worse case is I miss Vose and end up in the Notch.

Jazzbo said:

What if you twist an ankle. What is this kid supposed to do? Don't think there is cell coverage in this region.

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I'd like to think that if I twist my ankle or worse that we'd be able to get out okay. Just as I did with PABN I will have a set a bearings ready that he could use a compass with to get to the nearest road/trail. I also have a gps and will have various escape tracks on it. On each hike he's done with me I let him carry and use the GPS and have taught him some basic compass stuff. So he can follow a GPS track and knows how to shoot a bearing and follow it close enough to intercept a trail.I also carry a SPOT beacon so I can send my latest GPS location home if the GPS failed. In the worst scenario he could set off the help beacon on the SPOT. Just as I did on PAT while driving up and hiking on the trail, I would go over what he should do for various incidents.

Raven said:

I'd make sure we both knew how to use map and compass ... I'm probably being overly cautious ... I try to keep myself two moves away from a potentially dangerous situation ... 1SlowHiker is going to have to do a risk/benefit analysis ... I would further consider adding a third person

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1SlowHiker said:

My biggest concern is time ... I wouldn't mind coming back another day if I thought both would be too much ... I do have a GPS and a track ... Worse case ... I also carry a SPOT beacon ... I would go over what he should do for various incidents.

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Great things to think through - I have yet to experience a hiking situation wherein an excess of caution proved to be a really bad thing.

Re: SPOT [well, and headlamps as well for that matter], don't forget to bring extra known-fresh batteries. Let us know how it goes!

Alex

I have experience with this route in both directions. There is a well-formed herdpath going from Carrigain notch up to Vose Spur. This route is practically a trail, and you'll find it easily enough on the way up. If you miss it on the way down, things would be less enjoyable for all parties. The worst parts of the whack are in the col between the two peaks, and to a lesser extent the krumholz near Carrigain's summit. Once you're on the ridge to Carrigain, a faint herd path will appear.

My best advice would be to do Vose first, but if you're going to follow a GPS track then it doesn't matter - but you better trust the source of that track. Just because the bushwhacker had a GPS doesn't mean they took the best route.

I've been both ways and found it easier to go from Vose to Carrigain. Probably because it was my second time. A few key notes would be, don't try to go in a straight line between the two peaks, try to follow the faint herd path along the ridge between Carrigain and it's small subpeak to the north (NE). We found no traces of a path from the subpeak to the col. The trees are very thick between the talus field in the col and Carrigain's subpeak. Don't be afraid to skirt these and take the line of least resistance. I spent a few minutes calling my dog here only to realize she was ten feet in front of me looking at me. There are some steep ledges coming off of Vose Spur so if you descend that way "look before you leap" as some may be hard to get back up if you change your mind. Good luck and have fun.