AMC Trips for 19 y/o

I am looking for some feedback on different AMC programming options for my 19 y/o daughter who is currently a freshman in college. Quite simply, she falls into a gap where a lot of the youth programs are for ages thru 18 years old and the Young Adult program is designed for people in their 20"s and 30's. She has reached out the the program director who has acknowledged that she would be welcome to join the youth programs. She is currently interested in a July 2016, 6 day 100 mile wilderness/ Katahdin trip or a 20 day leadership training trip as offered through the youth program. The young adult program has not posted any events past the first of the year so we have no idea what might be available.
She has a good background from day hikes in the NH 4000' peaks, minimal backpacking experience. She has potential career interests that would benefit from the leadership training opportunity. We are looking for some feedback about the quality of the programs, how a 19 y/o might fit in the youth programs and most importantly, if there are other similar offerings (within the AMC or other groups) that might be a better experience.
We welcome and thank you for any advice that you might have.

My son, as a 16 year old, participated in an AMC trail maintenance program and is still proud of the bridge he helped build and is happy to hike there to this day. Otherwise, I do not have direct knowledge of the youth and young adult programs but I expect, like many, it can depend on the specific dynamics of the group and its leaders with respect to outcomes for your daughter.

At the very least she'd gain some backpacking skills on the 100 mile wilderness and, under the right circumstances, could emerge as a leader among equals for the presumed additional maturity she brings to the participants. I'd try to talk with the leaders of each of the programs/trips of interest, not just the people who screen and register. I don't think there's anything wrong in simply learning skills and having a good time. The experience itself and observation of the trips' leaders are important pieces to becoming a leader. Unless she were interested in developing leadership skills among children, she might be better off with the additional skills now and adult leadership training in the future.

... plus the bragging rights of the 100 mile wilderness is a good entree to any outdoor career ...

I'm not sure exactly what programs you're looking at, as different chapters have different names for similar things. I (and many others here) am most familiar with the Boston chapter. Is she looking more for "chapter trips" (most of the day hike to weekend backpacks are run by the chapters) or weeklong programs?

The bad news is that the Boston chapter "Young Members" (YM) group, although targeted 20s and 30s, has skewed into 40s as people get older every year and continue to hike with the same group. I always appreciate when someone "only" in their late 20s expressed interest in leadership so we can push things back toward equilibrium. When I joined AMC in my mid 20s, I was a little taken aback by how few people were anywhere near my age, particularly in YM. Oddly enough time has solved that problem.

The good news is that people in all activities, including YM but also very strongly the hiking/backpacking (HB) committee, are very welcoming and treat younger folks as peers. I also met quite a few younger folks in the spring rock climbing program that I've then continued to hike with. Trails programs (such as volunteer vacations) also skew a bit younger.

Her college outing club may also be a good alternative/supplement.

To add a bit more to this discussion, at 19, she in NOT welcome in the AMC youth programs; this is an update to the information that was originally provided. She is on the fence between simply participating in a trip or actually committing to a longer leadership training experience. Of course summer job and $ are contributing factors. As a parent, I would love to see the focus on the leadership type of program. However, it is all good.

Her long term goals do involve working with youth and I think that any youth leadership training would be a good experience. As suggested by Stan, simply observing a strong leader at work is an educational experience in itself.

We are members of the Boston chapter, we live in MA, we hike in ME & NH and she is in school in RI. So geographic focus is not really an issue......take your pick.

I am also wondering if anyone has experience with other programs such as NOLS or Chewonki. She is a part of the outing club, but is slow to get started because she has just finished a fall sport.

I'll take a stab at this, but I'm not completely certain I know what you're looking for.

IMO, "Leadership Training" is this wishy-woshy undefined thing that doesn't alway deliver value on the promise. You can't become a leader in some activity unless you are really quite good at that activity. So if one wished to become a leader in some outdoors pursuit, the best path is to get good at that particular pursuit. One does this through broad experience across geographical boundaries, terrain and types of challenge (endurance, technical, mental, weather conditions, etc. etc.). NOLS is very well known and well regarded for teaching folks the important skills to be self-sufficient in the woods (or on glaciers or wherever). It has "leadership school" in the name of the organization, but again IMO, the leadership part is actually fairly specific the the "Outdoors" part, which is also in the organization name, and comes from gaining skills and competence. Good luck leading someone out of a dicey above treeline whiteout if you're not a competent navigator. All the "people skills" in the world aren't going to help you there. Similarly, good luck leading a team through some business/science/medical/whatever challenge if you aren't really good at that particular thing. Sure, plenty of Dilbert cartoons would suggest there are a ton of incompetent people in leadership positions, but this is not a good situation, and certainly not the way you want to get into that leadership position.

I love a great many outdoors pursuits, from cutting and splitting wood to multi-day backpacks in the winter, to alpine rock climbs. My competence in those pursuits and my ability to lead folks in challenging outdoors situations, unfortunately, does not directly translate into an ability to lead people on a science project (my career). Sure, once I've got the requisite science chops and have proven my value, I'm in a position to lead, and at that time some of those skills do translate: ability to work with a variety of personality types, being an organized individual, etc. But those skills aren't terribly valuable by themselves. This is just my opinion, I fully recognize.

So if your daughter wants to become an outdoors person and eventually some kind of leader in an outdoors activity, any number of programs will help her do that. I think NOLS is a fantastic oranization; I know two individuals very well who have taken some of their longer programs and they had great experiences. It's uber pricey and the time commitment is large. She could also gain a great deal of competence by participating in various AMC-sponsored programs, for example chapter day trips, backpacks, and instructional programs. These trips and programs are amazingly inexpensive and the time commitment is flexible. The opportunity to observe varying leadership styles could also be quite valuable. As with any other activity, she'd frankly have no business leading a group prior to gaining the requisite skills and experience. If it were my daughter, I'd think carefully about what is meant by "leadership training," what she has in mind for objectives, and what you have in mind.

Lost Dad said:

To add a bit more to this discussion, at 19, she in NOT welcome in the AMC youth programs; this is an update to the information that was originally provided. She is on the fence between simply participating in a trip or actually committing to a longer leadership training experience. Of course summer job and $ are contributing factors. As a parent, I would love to see the focus on the leadership type of program. However, it is all good.

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If she's thinking for next summer, trying to get on hut croo, trail crew, or tent site caretaker may make a lot of sense, assuming she's already got substantial outdoor experience and knows she'd like that sort of thing. There's a fair bit of hardnosed practical leadership experience one gets from that sort of thing, and it's the major spot within AMC for those of college age.

If opportunities to develop leadership skills in general are the thing, that's what those college activities, like the fall sports and outing club, are for! Step into a lead role; I've never met any organization that didn't need it. Leadership and experience are thing that develop by doing (sometimes guided doing), not from taking a course, as hikerbrian mentions.

Consider Mountain Leadership School. It's not showing online when the next program is scheduled, I'm pretty sure it's a summertime course.

Lost Dad, I'm a part-time NOLS instructor myself, so I'm probably a bit biased in saying NOLS is pretty awesome. As for other programs, Chewonki definitely seems to have their act together (they're one of only three summer camps I've ever seen on a trail that didn't make me cringe), and Outward Bound is always an option, although I don't know as much about their various programs. Many NOLS instructors also work for OB and other schools, so there's a lot of crossover there.

I took a NOLS semester course when I was 20 and it was, by far, the best part of the years I was in college. The summer Wilderness courses are for students age 16 to 22. The course I led this summer had the full age range, but 75% of the students were 18-20. Your daughter would be pretty much right in the middle of that.

As for the skills learned at any of these schools, I'm sure the quality of the individual instructor group varies widely, but the lessons learned at a good leadership school are very easy to take elsewhere beyond the backcountry. Unless the instructors are not very good, or if the student really doesn't want to learn about anything but technical skills, the whole point of the NOLS leadership curriculum is to make it apply to any group setting, including workplaces. That's the reason the CIA and NASA send a ton of their people on NOLS courses (fun fact!).

Let me consolidate the AMC-related options mentioned thus far and broaden the range -- after all, the club offers literally thousands of activities each year. Most are volunteer-led, and some are staff-led (and therefore cost more), e.g., Mountain Leadership School. At 19, your daughter is an adult, and is welcome on any adult AMC trip that interests her, "Young" Members or otherwise. As mentioned, the activities will likely comprise folks of diverse ages (subject, of course, to trip-specific physical requirements). Whether the interest is trail work, training programs, backpacks, lodge/hut-based trips, or day trips, http://activities.outdoors.org is the place to go -- the search mechanism is pretty good.

Be aware, though, that for next summer, many of the activity options haven't hit the calendar yet. You can keep checking the site, as well as network within the club to the appropriate folks to pursue specific thoughts.

From my perspective and experience, here are some AMC options that may be relevant based on my read of your posts (by no means exhaustive, which is where the website comes in):

- Mountain Leadership School is a week-long backcountry leadership training program, very well regarded, with several format options and dates. It's primarily a summertime program, and as David mentioned, the dates for next summer aren't posted yet, though a phone call per the link he provided may yield the necessary planning info.

- Trail work oriented trips of various lengths (not yet posted for the summer time frame). While not overt leadership training, teamwork skills are definitely exercised.

- Week-long or even multi-week adventures. Two examples: August Camp, and the Presidential Range Hike. If there isn't something posted now, who knows - someone may post and run a 100-mile wilderness trip.

- Working (getting paid rather than paying) as a hut "croo" member - a college-age backcountry enthusiast's rite of passage, with big teamwork and leadership components.

- While hut crew is probably the best known summer AMC job for college age folks, the full range of options is broader than just that.

Alex

The AMC Youth Opportunities Program is great and sounds like it would be a great fit here.