Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 28 of 28

Thread: Jay Peak & Burke...

  1. #16
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,215
    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post

    Why does the Balsam project come to mind when I read this
    Because it is another tainted level of rhetoric you are trying to make as an unrealated subject that has nothing to do with the Balsam project. I'm sorry but once again you are trying to correalate and connect projects which are really unrealated. I find it interesting that the Moderaters here give you the space to express your political ideals which is stated as something that is really not to be a part of this board so stated in the rules of this board. I challege you and the Moderaters to stand tall and really get back to a stance here to talk about hiking and what makes that work and get off of bashing the ski areas. peak bagger when was the last time you and some of the others here that have a hair trigger that put down skiers got off there rumpus and realize that skiers are hikers too. Unlike hikers that are not skiers. Really get off it and realize that most of us see a bigger picture.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  2. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Gorham NH
    Posts
    7,421
    I don't agree with you and you obviously think I have something against skiers, I don't and don't know why you think I do. I am against shady if not ultimately criminal practices that do damage to local businesses, regions and individuals. Skiers especially those who elect to buy into housing are ultimately impacted by projects that fail due to byzantine financial manipulation. In any Ponzi scheme there are winners and in Jay Peaks and Burke's case, at least a portion of the upgrade to the facilities were reportedly funded by diverting funds from EB5 investors of other projects. Sure the skiers get a free ride for a few years with improved facilities, but if the financials don't pencil out its not sustainable, eventually the resort turns into a Saddleback or Evergreen Valley. The skiers can always go to another area but the folks who bought into the failed scheme and the locals who live here by choice or by lack of any opportunities don't have that luxury.

    In the case of the Balsams, the scope of the project is much larger than the current footprint of the current resort. It will impact forever "sensitive wild areas" with a substantial increase in footprint and with expected subsidiary development it will change the surrounding area . I personally think its a potentially major improvement to the area, but only if the underlying financials are such that its not a boom and then bust. At first Les Otten came into the area and represented that he had the financing in place and had to act quickly or the opportunity would go away. Numerous state agencies, non profits like the AMC, American Rivers and SPNHF all did their best to let the project proceed despite significant concerns. As deadline after deadline about start of construction has been missed, the veracity of Otten's claims are legitimately being questioned. Minor little details like the inadvertently revealed past and future substantial subsidy by Northern Pass and the out right arm twisting by Les Otten of local political boards to change their stance against NP, which should have no linkage with the Balsams, also calls into question how solid the financing in. The recent reveal that the project will die without significant escrowed deposits for what are essentially time share vacations from prospective owners is another indication that the financials are not solid as represented. The intentional delay of filing for a key state permit due to cost is also indicative that things are less secure then represented.

    Thus the linkage of two large ski resort projects in what is traditionally the areas of interest to some on the board based on redevelopment of what effectively were failed/marginal ski areas financed by suspect financing at best and potentially fraudulent in Jays and Burkes case is in my mind legitimate.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 10-02-2016 at 06:53 AM.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Newton, MA
    Posts
    2,445
    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    Because it is another tainted level of rhetoric you are trying to make as an unrealated subject that has nothing to do with the Balsam project. I'm sorry but once again you are trying to correalate and connect projects which are really unrealated. I find it interesting that the Moderaters here give you the space to express your political ideals which is stated as something that is really not to be a part of this board so stated in the rules of this board. I challege you and the Moderaters to stand tall and really get back to a stance here to talk about hiking and what makes that work and get off of bashing the ski areas. peak bagger when was the last time you and some of the others here that have a hair trigger that put down skiers got off there rumpus and realize that skiers are hikers too. Unlike hikers that are not skiers. Really get off it and realize that most of us see a bigger picture.
    I have enjoyed peakbagger's posts and learn a lot from them. To me, my engagement in New Hampshire and White Mountains region is more than just the trail or waterway, whatever season I enjoy them, it is about local issues that may effect the things I like or are of tangential iterest ... sometimes for no more than intellectual curiosity . Struck me he's always been careful to avoid a political slant but we are all free to express opinions relevant to topical items as long as we are civil about them. Perhaps what offends some people is that VFTT has a standard of civility enforced by the moderators, and accuracy enforced by the participants. VFTT has long been a reliable source of information for me ... even of some therapeutic value when I can't be out there myself ... and peakbagger has long been a major contributor to that experience.

  4. #19
    Moderator David Metsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Somerville, MA
    Posts
    5,033
    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    I challege you and the Moderaters to stand tall and really get back to a stance here to talk about hiking and what makes that work and get off of bashing the ski areas.
    [Mod Hat]
    I don't see anything here as bashing ski areas. Employment in the north country, and expansion of ski areas on National Forest land and expanding into other hiking terrain is on topic for VFTT. We have threads on a variety of issues that aren't specifically hiking related but still have impact on the community (Northern Pass, windfarms). As long as people are respectful of others these topics are of interest to lots of our readers. While we do have rules against political posts, there's nothing here that rises to the level or partisan political rhetoric.
    [\Mod Hat]

    As a poster and a skier, I echo many of peakbagger's concerns. I think the fiasco at Jay/Burke is relevant to the expansion plans for The Balsams which I doubt will ever move forward at this point.
    You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself, any direction you choose. -- Dr. Seuss

  5. #20
    Senior Member Quietman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Peterborough, NH
    Posts
    1,347
    Quote Originally Posted by David Metsky View Post
    As a poster and a skier, I echo many of peakbagger's concerns. I think the fiasco at Jay/Burke is relevant to the expansion plans for The Balsams which I doubt will ever move forward at this point.
    Thanks, I was going to post on this last night but you have now echoed my thoughts so it is unnecessary. As much as the north country really needs this, I can't see that it is feasible in any way.

  6. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Gorham NH
    Posts
    7,421

  7. #22
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,215
    Great link!
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  8. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Gorham NH
    Posts
    7,421
    Up date on Jay Peak and Burke http://www.vermontbiz.com/news/april...tain-creditors

    The unpaid contractors at Burke had been given a choice when the fraud indictments had been issued, either work for free to get the facility completed in hopes of getting paid eventually when the resorts were sold or take a chance that they would be paid far less if the resort was liquidated with an unfinished base lodge complex. Looks like they got paid a bit early. It is interesting to note the comment by the administrator with respect to selling the resorts with a potential price of 100 million. I am curious how many firms will be on the bid list?.

    I saw in a news report that the EB-5 investors who got paid off are going to be encouraged into investing in other EB5 opportunities. EB5 had been set up to help economically disadvantaged communities but unfortunately high end real estate investors have figured out a way of accessing the funds for high end building projects in definitely not economically disadvantaged areas like NYC.

  9. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Gorham NH
    Posts
    7,421
    Some long articles on the Jay Peak and Burke fraud

    https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/ne...urce=feedblitz

  10. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Gorham NH
    Posts
    7,421
    Short update on the potential sale of Jay Peak.

    https://abc17news.com/news/ap-nation...nt-ski-resort/

  11. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Gorham NH
    Posts
    7,421
    Looks like the government is getting out the Ski area business at Jay Peak https://www.the-journal.com/articles...sort-jay-peak/

  12. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Gorham NH
    Posts
    7,421
    The auction is today, 3 bidders including the stalking horse so someone will get it.

  13. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Gorham NH
    Posts
    7,421
    Sold https://vermontbiz.com/news/2022/sep...ion-76-million. Pretty good deal compared to the Balsams budget.

Similar Threads

  1. Jay Peak And Burke Mountain - Resolution of Fraud case
    By peakbagger in forum Q&A - New England
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-19-2019, 03:14 PM
  2. burke mountain 5/12/13
    By bryan in forum Vermont
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-12-2013, 11:24 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-01-2012, 05:26 PM
  4. Burke Mt. 3-30-11
    By Lefty E in forum Vermont
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-30-2011, 03:54 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-04-2010, 10:45 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •