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Thread: Things are heating up over ATV trails in Nash Stream

  1. #31
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    More importantly is the petitioners and if they are politically active locally. Town meetings usually are only attended by a small portion of voting age residents. Some percentage do show up but really do not actively research subjects and tend to make up their minds on the floor. They tend to align and vote with people they now and are "authorites (or at least act one). There are few if any commercial businesses in the town that directly benefit from Ride The Wilds. Its not a destination where folks can currently book a room for the night, buy gas or buy a meal. Long ago there was a reason for it to exist as it was the gateway to both Phillips Brook and Nash Stream timberlands but that ended years ago. Employees of the papermills in Groveton also had homes there but that ended in the last 20 years. These days it mostly long term residents and a few farms that are run by folks who want to be off the beaten path. There used to be bit of local celebrity associated with the Stark Old TIme Fiddle Fest but that tradition went away.

    Ride the Wilds has brought in a lot of local traffic and not necessarily desirable, the speed limits for ATVs on the roads are a joke, Fish and Game is understaffed and they are pretty well straight out dealing with the frequent accidents. Some portion of the ATV public remove modify the exhausts to make them louder. The gravel roads turn into a dust cloud on weekends and trash tends to get strewn about. Granted there are many folks following the rules but the minority that dont are far more obvious and ruin it for all. Another aspect is that there are several entities that do rentals in the region and their level of training is pretty low, therefore the renters may not even realize they are violating the rules and figure they wont get caught for the one day they shelled out $400 to rent for a day.

    Definitely a lot of minuses for not many pluses. Given that the two lead petitioners are the local constable and a Fish and Game officer I expect they can make some very convincing arguments on why ATVs should be banned. At best I expect there could be an attempt to table it subject to allow negotiations to limit travel and get some real enforcement commitments (like additional F&G staff).

    Given the

  2. #32
    Senior Member CaptCaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    More importantly is the petitioners and if they are politically active locally. Town meetings usually are only attended by a small portion of voting age residents. Some percentage do show up but really do not actively research subjects and tend to make up their minds on the floor. They tend to align and vote with people they now and are "authorites (or at least act one). There are few if any commercial businesses in the town that directly benefit from Ride The Wilds. Its not a destination where folks can currently book a room for the night, buy gas or buy a meal. Long ago there was a reason for it to exist as it was the gateway to both Phillips Brook and Nash Stream timberlands but that ended years ago. Employees of the papermills in Groveton also had homes there but that ended in the last 20 years. These days it mostly long term residents and a few farms that are run by folks who want to be off the beaten path. There used to be bit of local celebrity associated with the Stark Old TIme Fiddle Fest but that tradition went away.

    Ride the Wilds has brought in a lot of local traffic and not necessarily desirable, the speed limits for ATVs on the roads are a joke, Fish and Game is understaffed and they are pretty well straight out dealing with the frequent accidents. Some portion of the ATV public remove modify the exhausts to make them louder. The gravel roads turn into a dust cloud on weekends and trash tends to get strewn about. Granted there are many folks following the rules but the minority that dont are far more obvious and ruin it for all. Another aspect is that there are several entities that do rentals in the region and their level of training is pretty low, therefore the renters may not even realize they are violating the rules and figure they wont get caught for the one day they shelled out $400 to rent for a day.

    Definitely a lot of minuses for not many pluses. Given that the two lead petitioners are the local constable and a Fish and Game officer I expect they can make some very convincing arguments on why ATVs should be banned. At best I expect there could be an attempt to table it subject to allow negotiations to limit travel and get some real enforcement commitments (like additional F&G staff).

    Given the
    All your opinion....cars don't leave trash?

  3. #33
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    And we know hikers never leave trash... let’s manage resources for all rather than banning. Yes there will be some bad apples. If you are looking for a peaceful hike don’t choose to go up tucks. Sorry I’m grumpy today!

  4. #34
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    All your opinion....cars don't leave trash?
    I agree.......!
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    More importantly is the petitioners and if they are politically active locally. Town meetings usually are only attended by a small portion of voting age residents. Some percentage do show up but really do not actively research subjects and tend to make up their minds on the floor. They tend to align and vote with people they now and are "authorites (or at least act one).
    Good point -- that's been my experience, as well. It will be interesting to see the results from the vote on the warrant article.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    All your opinion....cars don't leave trash?
    Yes it my opinion but its supported by quite a few regional press reports. You apparently moved into the region from elsewhere so I dont know you experience base with town meeting form of government. Mine is since 1987. My observations on who lives in Stark shouldnt be a big surprise.

    Fish and Game personnel have testified in public numerous times about their lack of resources in covering the ATV boom. The trash observations come from similar ATV complaints in the Colebrook area. That area is a little easier to get information on as there still is functioning local newspaper. Stark is a backwater for news with little coverage.

    Not sure where there is much contention that there is a lack of local businesses in Stark directly benefiting from the ATV boom As far as I know the closest store is Gordies in West Milan and they have been struggling for a few years. Stop by and take a look at their inventory and its pretty slim.

    Talk to any landowner with an ATV trail going through it, trash is an issue as it is in the winter with snowmobiles. Yes motor vehicles owners do generate trash but in far less quantity and tend to concentrate along roads versus in the wood. There are public resources assigned to road side trash removal but the only resources are a very slim volunteer base and the landowner.

    So tell me what local pluses do the residents of Stark get with their roads open to ATV traffic did I miss?

    I am not opposed to the ATV network in the area as long as the trails are on land that the land owners voluntarily agree to its presence. All the politicians want to claim some of aura of the rapid growth and success of the system, but when it come to a funding needed resources and infrastructure, they dont do so. IMHO, the state of NH is gladly sucking revenues from the room and meals taxes for ATVs as well as the gas taxes and ATV registrations and funneling that revenue to general state expenses while starving the system of needed support. Put in more active education and enforcement of ATV regulations on the network and a lot of the impacts to residents can be mitigated. I think this petition in Stark is the residents only last resort option of having the ATV system thrust upon them. I hope it forces some hard discussion with the state on what can be done to mitigate the impacts residents who are impacted 7 days a week for 6 to 7 months a year. Many were there long before Ride the Wilds existed.

    Its not just in Stark, Colebrook residents have had significant issues with ATV road use and the Gorham parking Lot on RT2 and the RT2 corridor has its share of detractors. The unfortunate adjacent landowners to the Gorham lot were assured that a privacy fence would be installed last year to reduce the impact to their homes but to date nothing has been done. Typically when there is public discussion the ATV supporters show up enmasse and generally stifle producutive discussion
    Last edited by peakbagger; 03-03-2018 at 04:09 PM.

  7. #37
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    Here is an article from Novembe 2017 that I came across when this issue was brought to my attention as I was looking at properties up North:

    "ATV tourists’ in northern New Hampshire clash with locals"

    https://www.boston.com/news/local-ne...sh-with-locals
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  8. #38
    Senior Member Grey J's Avatar
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    If I am hiking the Percy Peaks on a summer weekend, am I likely to hear ATV engines once I'm out in the woods?
    If I am doing the road walk on Nash Stream Rd between the trailheads, will they be buzzing past me on the road?
    "I am a pilgrim and a stranger"

  9. #39
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    Yes you will get to see, hear and step aside for ATVs along the main road. Its a major connecting route between the northern part of the trail network and the southern part. There are attempts to open up additional ATV trails through the forest as described earlier in the thread. The Stark situation makes things more important to Ride the Wilds that additional trails be built in Nash Stream but as described previously that may not be an option.

    Not sure what the speed limit is, possibly 20 MPH but I expect some large minority regards that as advisory at best.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 03-05-2018 at 09:10 AM.

  10. #40
    Senior Member CaptCaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey J View Post
    If I am hiking the Percy Peaks on a summer weekend, am I likely to hear ATV engines once I'm out in the woods?
    If I am doing the road walk on Nash Stream Rd between the trailheads, will they be buzzing past me on the road?
    It's ok if you hear the buzzing of cars and trucks in the Notch? and park right on the road making it a safety hazzard.. Oh ..the woods are for just you and you alone selfish folks alone? Why don't you go some where else during seasons like I do to get away from all the crazy 4 k trail heads ...with dog poop, people poop everywhere not to mention again the parking issues... I went thru this down on the Cape.. people not liking boat ramps.... but like outside music ..fairs or motorcycles etc. oh they are o.k.
    I learned some people are just plain selfish ... narrow at best.. thank God most aren't allow what we do have... much as I hate outside music festivals in town etc. I don't go complaining all over about it. I learned from the cape to share.. love the Cog love hiking love snowmobileing,camping, traveling across the us.. I'm an all around live and let live.. guy..
    I don't own a ATV but I know they are good people.. unlike the creeps I find in Ma near the citys..and at their events..
    Last edited by CaptCaper; 03-06-2018 at 06:47 PM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    It's ok if you hear the buzzing of cars and trucks in the Notch? and park right on the road making it a safety hazzard.. Oh ..the woods are for just you and you alone selfish folks alone? Why don't you go some where else during seasons like I do to get away from all the crazy 4 k trail heads ...with dog poop, people poop everywhere not to mention again the parking issues... I went thru this down on the Cape.. people not liking boat ramps.... but like outside music ..fairs or motorcycles etc. oh they are o.k.
    I learned some people are just plain selfish ... narrow at best.. thank God most aren't allow what we do have... much as I hate outside music festivals in town etc. I don't go complaining all over about it. I learned from the cape to share.. love the Cog love hiking love snowmobileing,camping, traveling across the us.. I'm an all around live and let live.. guy..
    I don't own a ATV but I know they are good people.. unlike the creeps I find in Ma near the citys..and at their events..
    Wow! I just wanted to know what to prepare for when and if I get up there to hike the Percys. I have not even stated a pro or con position on ATVs in general or their use in this area. Your vitriol is misplaced, unwarranted and over the top.
    "I am a pilgrim and a stranger"

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    It's ok if you hear the buzzing of cars and trucks in the Notch? and park right on the road making it a safety hazzard.. Oh ..the woods are for just you and you alone selfish folks alone? Why don't you go some where else during seasons like I do to get away from all the crazy 4 k trail heads ...with dog poop, people poop everywhere not to mention again the parking issues... I went thru this down on the Cape.. people not liking boat ramps.... but like outside music ..fairs or motorcycles etc. oh they are o.k.
    I learned some people are just plain selfish ... narrow at best.. thank God most aren't allow what we do have... much as I hate outside music festivals in town etc. I don't go complaining all over about it. I learned from the cape to share.. love the Cog love hiking love snowmobileing,camping, traveling across the us.. I'm an all around live and let live.. guy..
    I don't own a ATV but I know they are good people.. unlike the creeps I find in Ma near the citys..and at their events..
    The Donald hikes?

  13. #43
    Senior Member dug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    It's ok if you hear the buzzing of cars and trucks in the Notch? and park right on the road making it a safety hazzard.. Oh ..the woods are for just you and you alone selfish folks alone? Why don't you go some where else during seasons like I do to get away from all the crazy 4 k trail heads ...with dog poop, people poop everywhere not to mention again the parking issues... I went thru this down on the Cape.. people not liking boat ramps.... but like outside music ..fairs or motorcycles etc. oh they are o.k.
    I learned some people are just plain selfish ... narrow at best.. thank God most aren't allow what we do have... much as I hate outside music festivals in town etc. I don't go complaining all over about it. I learned from the cape to share.. love the Cog love hiking love snowmobileing,camping, traveling across the us.. I'm an all around live and let live.. guy..
    I don't own a ATV but I know they are good people.. unlike the creeps I find in Ma near the citys..and at their events..
    Yep, really want to share as long as it fits your narrative

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    Ha...26 signatures.. not good... I would like to ban Motorcycles... hate the noise myself. Also Semi trucks barreling down the hill. Hate that noise as well. Also close all the bars as I hate boozers...

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    It's ok if you hear the buzzing of cars and trucks in the Notch? and park right on the road making it a safety hazzard.. Oh ..the woods are for just you and you alone selfish folks alone? Why don't you go some where else during seasons like I do to get away from all the crazy 4 k trail heads ...with dog poop, people poop everywhere not to mention again the parking issues... I went thru this down on the Cape.. people not liking boat ramps.... but like outside music ..fairs or motorcycles etc. oh they are o.k.
    I learned some people are just plain selfish ... narrow at best.. thank God most aren't allow what we do have... much as I hate outside music festivals in town etc. I don't go complaining all over about it. I learned from the cape to share.. love the Cog love hiking love snowmobileing,camping, traveling across the us.. I'm an all around live and let live.. guy..
    I don't own a ATV but I know they are good people.. unlike the creeps I find in Ma near the citys..and at their events..
    Huh. All that just to shit on MA.

  15. #45
    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshandBaron View Post
    Huh. All that just to shit on MA.
    Am I the only one who reads his posts with a pirate voice?
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