Let's see your alcohol stove kits!

dave.m · Aug 31, 2016

Time for show and tell. What do you carry for an alcohol stove?

I'll start...

Ok, I took some shots of my alcohol rigs during an excruciating conference call today.

Three alcohol rigs. Details are in the notes on the Fllkr pages, so click on the pictures for more details.

My tea making rig based on a Batchstovez 1.0 and Stanley pot.

Tea Kit - Packed by Pinnah, on Flickr

Tea Kit - Parts by Pinnah, on Flickr

Tea Kit - Assembled by Pinnah, on Flickr

My 1-2 person rig based on a Batchstovez 2.0 and GSI Solist pot.

2 Person Kit - Packed by Pinnah, on Flickr

2 Person Kit - Parts by Pinnah, on Flickr

2 Person Kit - Assembled by Pinnah, on Flickr

My 3 - 4 person rig based on a Trangia burner, Mojo pot stand and a Open Country 2 quart pot.

4 Person Kit - Packed Up by Pinnah, on Flickr

4 Person Kit - Parts by Pinnah, on Flickr

4 Person Kit - Assembled by Pinnah, on Flickr

Thanks for looking.

bikehikeskifish · Aug 31, 2016

I built a few once during a s.l.o.w. week at work

Tim

DayTrip · Sep 1, 2016

I don't want to derail this thread too badly but it ties in with a question I asked in my Winter Camping question. Are alcohol stoves merely small pots or containers that you just pour alcohol in, light it and cook on it? It seems it is essentially like my little Esbit emergency stove only instead of a tablet you burn alcohol. That seems like the kind of thing that would blow out in two seconds on a breezy Winter day. These are the set ups that are considered most reliable in Winter?

Edit: And as an added question: are no such things already commercially available or are they just too expensive? Or is this just an ultra light, do-it-yourself type project that is a source of pride among hikers coming up with the most efficient design?

Becca M · Sep 1, 2016

wow dave.m -- very impressive setup - that's the only stove type I do NOT have. I too have an Esbit I use for backpacking - nice and small and light, but STINKY fuel pellet. My go-to for car camping is Jetboil, and, if I have time to linger, my Biolite.

DayTrip makes some excellent points!!! I have wondered about all those same points!!!!!

bikehikeskifish · Sep 1, 2016

I have never used mine during winter camping. I would not rely on it in winter (I have a white gas stove). I made it for amusement and felt compelled to share it as such . . . That said, it's come in handy during power outages as I would use it indoors while I wouldn't run the white gas stove indoors.

Tim

DayTrip · Sep 1, 2016

bikehikeskifish said:
I have never used mine during winter camping. I would not rely on it in winter (I have a white gas stove). I made it for amusement and felt compelled to share it as such . . . That said, it's come in handy during power outages as I would use it indoors while I wouldn't run the white gas stove indoors.

Tim

Yah I think I confused alcohol with white gas. I've been reading up on stoves so I have a lot of info swirling around in my head at the moment about the different fuel types and when they work best. I think I am just going to stick with my Jetboil for now and keep trying it in colder and colder temps until I identify the point that it is unusable or a huge pain in the ass to use before I get another stove.

bikehikeskifish · Sep 1, 2016

I went with white gas, in part, because I have a white gas lantern I use fishing at night, and I understand the white gas pressure/generator/gasification/burning process. Also because I did not want to ever worry about it not working in winter. That said, I've used it only in winter in Baxter in a cabin heated by a wood stove where all the JetBoil users had zero problems (as you might expect... it was not exactly frigid with the wood stove going...)

Tim

Summerset · Sep 2, 2016

DayTrip said:
I don't want to derail this thread too badly but it ties in with a question I asked in my Winter Camping question. Are alcohol stoves merely small pots or containers that you just pour alcohol in, light it and cook on it? It seems it is essentially like my little Esbit emergency stove only instead of a tablet you burn alcohol. That seems like the kind of thing that would blow out in two seconds on a breezy Winter day. These are the set ups that are considered most reliable in Winter?

Edit: And as an added question: are no such things already commercially available or are they just too expensive? Or is this just an ultra light, do-it-yourself type project that is a source of pride among hikers coming up with the most efficient design?

I have no advice or comments for winter backpacking/camping, I'll leave that to others with more experience in that season than I. Windy conditions can be an issue regardless of season, windscreens are helpful in that situation.

Alcohol stove are not just small containers for alcohol to burn, exactly. There is purposeful design to the stoves with the placement of the holes, etc.

Yes, alcohol stoves are commercially available. The Caldera Cone and similar products from the same company (just google it) are popular ones and there are plenty of cottage industry folks who make them from soda cans, beer cans, etc. My Caldera Cone has been with me for over 2500 miles, and Lord willing and the creek don't rise, it will probably get a few more before it is all over.

Of course, you can DIY, there are plenty of tutorials out there. I've got a one I made from a cat food can and it works rather well. My cats were happy too.

Dave.M - Nice set ups!!!

Ed'n Lauky · Sep 2, 2016

Here are some photos of my Esbit stove with heat exchanger. It is extremely compact when packed up and will boil one cup of water in two minutes. I've used it for a couple of years and have been extremely happy with it.

dave.m · Sep 2, 2016

DayTrip said:
I don't want to derail this thread too badly but it ties in with a question I asked in my Winter Camping question. Are alcohol stoves merely small pots or containers that you just pour alcohol in, light it and cook on it? It seems it is essentially like my little Esbit emergency stove only instead of a tablet you burn alcohol. That seems like the kind of thing that would blow out in two seconds on a breezy Winter day. These are the set ups that are considered most reliable in Winter?

Edit: And as an added question: are no such things already commercially available or are they just too expensive? Or is this just an ultra light, do-it-yourself type project that is a source of pride among hikers coming up with the most efficient design?

Day trip, I believe parts of the Swedish Army use the Trangia stoves in the winter.

Most stoves work better when the fuel is warmer. So, alcohol stoves and white gas stoves both run better when you have insulation under them. I use a small disk of thin plywood, which also prevents the stove from melting down in the snow.

Most, but not all, alcohol stoves use small jets to form the flame. The "bowl" is actually double sided and when you pour fuel in the center, it also fills the side camber. When you light the center, it heats the alcohol to the point where alcohol gas vapors shoot out the jets, creating the flames. It's the same exactly principle as a white gas stove with must less volatile fuel.

The flames on an alcohol stove are much weaker than the blow torch flames of a white gas (or canister) stove. For this reason, alcohol stoves need a windscreen to run efficiently pretty much all the time. To get good at an alcohol stove is to get good with the windscreen. Interestingly, when you have a good windscreen, the alcohol stove turns into a blow torch in windy conditions as the windscreen creates a chimney effect!

For this all to work, you need to think of the burner, windscreen and pot as an integrated set as you want a good fit between them all.

Commercially available kits can be a bit pricey but they often contain all the parts too. The standard Trangia kit is a classic but the Esbit and Caldera Cone are worth looking at too. The Batchstovez I use are a cottage industry and his kits are very reasonably priced. I would also consider the Flat Cat stoves.

UL hikers like to push the envelope and the cat food and Pepsi can stoves are feather light but less durable.

DougPaul · Sep 4, 2016

DayTrip said:
I've been reading up on stoves so I have a lot of info swirling around in my head at the moment about the different fuel types and when they work best.

Fuel names differ between countries and can be used inconsistently within a country.

In the US:
* "alcohol" camping fuel is ethanol (generally denatured so one cannot drink it, but you can use grain alcohol if you wish...

).
* "white gas"**, probably better referred to as "Coleman fuel", is mostly naptha (plus a few additives).

** "White gas" can also refer to other fuels.

See http://fuel.papo-art.com/ for more info.

FWIW, I use Coleman fuel in winter. Easy to use in the cold and puts out lots of heat (very useful for melting snow at low temps).

Doug

Will · Sep 5, 2016

DougPaul said:
In the US:
* "alcohol" camping fuel is ethanol

Mostly methanol these days I'm afraid. Very difficult (or expensive) to find ethanol. Almost all the alcohol fuel sold at hardware stores and in hardware departments and places like Home Depot is at least half methanol and frequently 90%+. There is a "green" labelled version of alcohol at Home Depot that's about 80% ethanol I think. You can get lab ethanol, almost pure, and Everclear drinkable ethanol.

I used a simmer cat (one row of smaller-than-standard paper punch holes) for many years, and with proper and careful use it was fine in Winter. But with the Chinese 0.8 oz. isobutane burner with its very nice simmer, I've pretty much gone back to canisters.

DougPaul · Sep 5, 2016

Will said:
Mostly methanol these days I'm afraid. Very difficult (or expensive) to find ethanol. Almost all the alcohol fuel sold at hardware stores and in hardware departments and places like Home Depot is at least half methanol and frequently 90%+. There is a "green" labelled version of alcohol at Home Depot that's about 80% ethanol I think. You can get lab ethanol, almost pure, and Everclear drinkable ethanol.

Methanol is poisonous. (You can be exposed by contact (it is absorbed through the skin), inhalation, or ingestion.) http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927227 I'd avoid it, but it appears that many use it without obvious effects.

Ethanol is safer. I had no trouble getting some denatured ethanol at a local hardware store (my can says "shellac thinner/stove fuel"). Marine supply stores also carry it for use as stove fuel (because it is non-explosive and alcohol fires can be fought with water).

Also ethanol has a higher energy content per weight and per volume than methanol (kerosene and gasoline are even better...):

Code:

             MJ/kg     MJ/l
Kerosene      46       37.4
Gasoline      46.4     34.2
Ethanol       26.4     20.9
Methanol      19.7     15.6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

Doug

Will · Sep 5, 2016

DougPaul said:
I had no trouble getting some denatured ethanol at a local hardware store (my can says "shellac thinner/stove fuel"). Marine supply stores also carry it for use as stove fuel (because it is non-explosive and alcohol fires can be fought with water).

Could you share the name; I can't find ethanol at all any more; used to be widely available. Best I've found recently is Klean-Strip Green @ 80% ethanol and I can't even find that locally in gallon cans; the quart cans are expensive.

Klean-Strip's normal (non-green) alcohol is 60% methanol and even that is better than most.

Ed'n Lauky · Sep 5, 2016

Here's a link to the Esbit stove at Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Esbit-Lightw...words=Esbit+alcohol+stove+with+heat+exchanger
I buy denatured alcohol at Walmart under the brand name Klean Strip.

DayTrip · Sep 6, 2016

DougPaul said:
Fuel names differ between countries and can be used inconsistently within a country.

In the US:
* "alcohol" camping fuel is ethanol (generally denatured so one cannot drink it, but you can use grain alcohol if you wish... ).
* "white gas"**, probably better referred to as "Coleman fuel", is mostly naptha (plus a few additives).

** "White gas" can also refer to other fuels.

See http://fuel.papo-art.com/ for more info.

FWIW, I use Coleman fuel in winter. Easy to use in the cold and puts out lots of heat (very useful for melting snow at low temps).

Doug

Coleman fuel = White Gas = Winter stove material?? Interesting. About 15 years ago I bought a little Coleman multi-fuel stove on an impulse before a camping trip and never bought the fuel or used. Looks like I may already have my Winter stove if I can locate it out in my garage. I think it's still in the original box. I assume Coleman fuel is still available somewhere?

dug · Sep 6, 2016

Yes, Coleman fuel is = to white gas, and it's the only fuel I use in the winter.

Will · Sep 6, 2016

DayTrip said:
About 15 years ago I bought a little Coleman multi-fuel stove on an impulse before a camping trip and never bought the fuel or used. Looks like I may already have my Winter stove if I can locate it out in my garage.

Check out the seal ring.

jfb · Sep 6, 2016

DayTrip said:
Coleman fuel = White Gas = Winter stove material?? Interesting. About 15 years ago I bought a little Coleman multi-fuel stove on an impulse before a camping trip and never bought the fuel or used. Looks like I may already have my Winter stove if I can locate it out in my garage. I think it's still in the original box. I assume Coleman fuel is still available somewhere?

Coleman Fuel should be available somewhere, perhaps a hardware store, Walmart, Sears or EMS/REI. You'll also need a fuel bottle, a pouring cap that fits the fuel bottle and a pouring spout for the gallon bottle(remove the spring for easier pouring). To add to the complexity, that type of stove starts much better if you prime it first after pumping. You can use a tube of priming paste and place a little on the burner tube, light the paste and just before it goes out, slowly open the valve. Or, what I do is place a small piece of cotton ball under the burner tube and use an eyedropper to sprinkle 3 or 4 drops of fuel on the cotton. Light the cotton and just before the flame dies, open the valve. If you have to shut off the stove and restart it before it cools completely, do so at a safe distance because it will flare up.

https://www.rei.com/product/626906/coghlans-fire-paste

https://ig9fqkj1853z.wordpress.com/...cet-and-pour-spout-for-standard-fuel-bottles/

https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-3000002657-Fuel-Filler-Assembly/dp/B0009PURJK

DayTrip · Sep 6, 2016

Thanks all. I'm going to look into it.

Let's see your alcohol stove kits!

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