Hiker Rescue 9/4 - Heading down Huntington Ravine Trail

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Yup that's what the report said. Its not unusual despite the standard guide warnings about descending. Unfortunately folks equate shortest distance with fastest way down.
 
DougPaul said:
I've done it--don't recall anything being particularly troublesome.

It's above some hikers comfort level, but is well within that of many other hikers.

Doug
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The ones who don't know what they're getting into probably don't fall into the category of it being "in their comfort level". A lot of experienced hikers on this page avoid descent that way. Certainly not impossible but definitely strenuous and dangerous for anyone, not just inexperienced hikers. And that's before taking into account the weather. I know we hall hate signs, signs and more signs but there really needs to be a sternly worded warning sign down the trail before the steep descent starts making it very clear what you're getting into and suggesting the best safe way down, not the shortest. It's like a broken record reading about incidents descending this trail.
 
DayTrip said:
It's like a broken record reading about incidents descending this trail.
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I don't recall too many of them, probably more on Flume Slide trail. IMO, signs have a negligible impact on new hikers anyway, so I doubt it would do anything. And if you put one there, would a novice hiker assume that if there wasn't a sign on Flume Slide trail that it was safe to descend?
 
David Metsky said:
I don't recall too many of them, probably more on Flume Slide trail. IMO, signs have a negligible impact on new hikers anyway, so I doubt it would do anything. And if you put one there, would a novice hiker assume that if there wasn't a sign on Flume Slide trail that it was safe to descend?
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I agree. Time for people to wake up and do their research. Read the book, talk to other experienced hikers and put down the cell phone. More signs will only create more dependency and expectations that signage should be at every turn in the road. For me at least it is pretty dam obvious within minutes of going over the lip of that trail that it is something pretty dam steep. So ante up and take some responsibility for your own arse. In this situation if it is true that this gentleman did have a medical emergency where he was unable to continue on his own at least he was in an open area where a helicopter could get to him. Ironically if he had been on an easier trail like Lions Head down in the woods his extrication would have been more difficult.
 
skiguy said:
I agree. Time for people to wake up and do their research. Read the book, talk to other experienced hikers and put down the cell phone. More signs will only create more dependency and expectations that signage should be at every turn in the road. For me at least it is pretty dam obvious within minutes of going over the lip of that trail that it is something pretty dam steep. So ante up and take some responsibility for your own arse. In this situation if it is true that this gentleman did have a medical emergency where he was unable to continue on his own at least he was in an open area where a helicopter could get to him. Ironically if he had been on an easier trail like Lions Head down in the woods his extrication would have been more difficult.
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I have been watching to see if anything came up about this hiker's condition. We passed him about 9 am on his way up Huntington Ravine trail, at first Jackson Road crossing. I asked him if he was ok, because he was sitting down, face beet red, and sweating profusely, obviously not in good shape to be doing this trail. He replied "Yeah, my face is red." I said to my hiking partner "That is a heart attack waiting to happen." Hope I didn't jinx the poor guy. Hiking down after descending Lion's Head around 3:30 we saw the Blackhawk helicopter; you could tell they were there for a rescue. A rock climber coming down behind us said someone had a heart attack, at the hardest spot on the trail. A guy with a bandage around his wrist. I said, Yup, that's him. The copter headed south to NoCo toward Memorial Hospital. I'm assuming he made it, because if there was a death it would have been on the news. I can't believe he would have made it to the ledges, and have to wonder why the friend he was with would have taken him on that trail. If they were coming down, it was because they couldn't make it up. "Fell Ill on the trail", the report said.
 
David Metsky said:
I don't recall too many of them, probably more on Flume Slide trail. IMO, signs have a negligible impact on new hikers anyway, so I doubt it would do anything. And if you put one there, would a novice hiker assume that if there wasn't a sign on Flume Slide trail that it was safe to descend?
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There have been 2 or 3 incidents just this year that I recall reading about. Maybe "broken record" implied a higher rate of frequency than I intended. It's like Flume Slide and the dreaded wrong turn error many hikers make on the top of Lafayette heading down GRT. And I doubt the novice hiker would know enough to compare one trail to the next. Half the time they don't even know what trail they are on to start with. I don't think they'd have any kind of "knowledge base" to draw comparisons from and connect the dots that Trail A had a sign but Trail B doesn't so....

As much as we'd like it to be the opposite, there are always going to be throngs of hikers who never look at a guide book or map and have no clue what they're doing. If a single simple sign avoids one such incident a year, the possibility of a serious injury, and the likely waste of SAR time and resources on said uninformed hiker then I think it's worth it. I thought it was an interesting point in the article I posted in the NY Forum about over crowding that a lot of people go right to Facebook and other social media for their hiking "information". I guess some NY agencies are really trying to improve their visibility on these sites as a way to get through to enthusiastic but uninformed hikers. I think that is a pretty good idea as well.
 
Bernerbabe said:
We passed him about 9 am on his way up Huntington Ravine trail, at first Jackson Road crossing.
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Jackson Road crossing on Huntington Ravine Trail ?? Do you mean the Raymond Path crossing? If he was already beet red at that point and hadn't even dabbled in the degree of difficulty he was in for yet I guess I'm shocked he didn't turn around. He hadn't even done the Fan yet, let alone the headwall. I guess some additional details of how the guy got where he did would be helpful.
 
David Metsky said:
I don't recall too many of them, probably more on Flume Slide trail. IMO, signs have a negligible impact on new hikers anyway, so I doubt it would do anything. And if you put one there, would a novice hiker assume that if there wasn't a sign on Flume Slide trail that it was safe to descend?
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I did a quick Google search for "Huntington Ravine" and "rescue" and found 6 incidents from the past 15 months or so (3 of these were since June 2016). To be fair, most involved getting into trouble ascending, not descending, but clearly this is one of the few trails in the Whites worthy of some additional level of warning or attention give the volume of incidents on it. Even F&G in a June article was calling for additional signage to assist and avoid costly rescues and injuries: http://www.concordmonitor.com/NH-white-mountain-rescue-hunting-2884547

I'm really not a fan of signage all over the place either. I'd love to see the removal of a lot of signs so the few that you come across are important and there for a reason and they stand out. A very large percentage of hikers out there will never read a guide book or map and just rely on what's out there so effective signage (NOT necessarily lots of signage) is really the only way to attempt to reach them.
 
Yes, sorry, that would be the first road crossing, Raymond Path. I feel like I should have suggested him turning around, and I thought that then, but the guy he was with looked like he was in decent hiking shape, so I assumed he knew what he was doing. Plus, the "hike your own hike" thing. Next time I'll say more. This was my second time hiking this route, and I needed help in one spot, think we got off the trail a bit, though. Wish I knew more, have been worried about him the last couple of days.
 
DayTrip said:
A very large percentage of hikers out there will never read a guide book or map and just rely on what's out there so effective signage (NOT necessarily lots of signage) is really the only way to attempt to reach them.
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A somewhat related story...

I did the Madison Gulf / Osgood loop this past weekend. When I got back to the junction of Great Gulf and Great Gulf Link Trails, I was approached by a group of young kids who couldn't remember which trail they came in on ("we crossed on a long bridge"). So I pointed them the right way.

Back at the parking lot, one of them approached me and asked if I would drive two of them to Gorham so they could get a cell phone signal. Sure.

On the ride up I learned why they needed to make a call. One of their group had dropped them off at the Great Gulf trailhead, then proceeded to drive up to the summit of Washington. I guess the plan was for the rest of the group to hike Great Gulf Trail up to Washington, and then they'd all ride down together. Except that this group didn't start hiking until 1:30pm, had no gear / clothing, no maps, hardly any water and had barely researched the trail. They got about halfway in and turned back ("the trail got really difficult"), unbeknownst to their friend waiting on the summit.

I gave them some strongly-worded advice against climbing Washington without the proper gear, research and experience, but I think it fell on deaf ears, as they were hell-bent on trying Washington again the next day. I also told them that should something go wrong, a rescue could be quite costly.

As with Huntington Ravine Trail, I suspect they saw a map of the GGT online somewhere and thought, oh, well, that looks like it goes right toward the summit, and that was it.
 
Bernerbabe said:
Yes, sorry, that would be the first road crossing, Raymond Path. I feel like I should have suggested him turning around, and I thought that then, but the guy he was with looked like he was in decent hiking shape, so I assumed he knew what he was doing. Plus, the "hike your own hike" thing. Next time I'll say more. This was my second time hiking this route, and I needed help in one spot, think we got off the trail a bit, though. Wish I knew more, have been worried about him the last couple of days.
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I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it. It is quite likely if you were more insistent on him turning around he wouldn't have anyway. I've come across a few people in my travels that I have felt obligated to tell them to turn around and/or they were getting in over their head and the usual reaction is to ignore me and be irritated at the suggestion.
 
Dingo said:
A somewhat related story...

I did the Madison Gulf / Osgood loop this past weekend. When I got back to the junction of Great Gulf and Great Gulf Link Trails, I was approached by a group of young kids who couldn't remember which trail they came in on ("we crossed on a long bridge"). So I pointed them the right way.

Back at the parking lot, one of them approached me and asked if I would drive two of them to Gorham so they could get a cell phone signal. Sure.

On the ride up I learned why they needed to make a call. One of their group had dropped them off at the Great Gulf trailhead, then proceeded to drive up to the summit of Washington. I guess the plan was for the rest of the group to hike Great Gulf Trail up to Washington, and then they'd all ride down together. Except that this group didn't start hiking until 1:30pm, had no gear / clothing, no maps, hardly any water and had barely researched the trail. They got about halfway in and turned back ("the trail got really difficult"), unbeknownst to their friend waiting on the summit.

I gave them some strongly-worded advice against climbing Washington without the proper gear, research and experience, but I think it fell on deaf ears, as they were hell-bent on trying Washington again the next day. I also told them that should something go wrong, a rescue could be quite costly.

As with Huntington Ravine Trail, I suspect they saw a map of the GGT online somewhere and thought, oh, well, that looks like it goes right toward the summit, and that was it.
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This is an all to common occurrence nowadays. I think just about every hike I do now I run into at least one group of people who fall into this category. The number only increases when you're on trails to popular mountains. I did a long loop about a month ago of Great Gulf, Adams, Washington and back so I was leaving summit of Washington fairly late (close to 6PM). On the way down Tuckerman Trail there was a guy with his friend who was literally lunging forward 2-3 steps and collapsing in exhaustion (of course no backpack or supplies between them). I assume they took the shuttle down or hitched a ride because that guy was not getting down the way he came. I would point out the popular trails I've done in NY this Summer had an equally large percentage of grossly under-equipped, clueless hikers out peak bagging so it's nothing unique to NH. I still find it absolutely stunning that there aren't more accidents than there are. Seems impossibly lucky given the percentage of people out there that are truly winging it. If the kind of hiking traffic we've seen the past few years continues to escalate I'd imagine this trend won't possibly hold up.
 
I'll just post this much of a story in the Boston Globe and leave it at that.

A Beautiful Place to Die
Cellphones, energy bars, and GPS watches have turned day-trippers and curious tourists into mountain-trekking thrill seekers. The problem is, the treacherous trails of the White Mountains are no place for rookies.


THE SIGNS ARE SUPPOSED TO remind hikers of their vulnerability. Especially those who, emboldened by cellphones and global positioning systems, set off into the Presidential Range in New Hampshire's White Mountains carrying little else besides day packs stocked with PowerBars. The message, in black lettering on yellow, is blunt: "STOP. The area ahead has the worst weather in America. Many have died there from exposure, even in the summer. Turn back now if the weather is bad." And each year, many people do stop, long enough to pose for a picture. Some photographs are uploaded to Flickr and other websites - including one of a pink-faced man gleefully acknowledging the warning with upraised middle fingers. A caption reads, "Tom showing the White Mountain National Forest what he thinks of their sign."
 
DayTrip said:
This is an all to common occurrence nowadays. I think just about every hike I do now I run into at least one group of people who fall into this category. The number only increases when you're on trails to popular mountains. I did a long loop about a month ago of Great Gulf, Adams, Washington and back so I was leaving summit of Washington fairly late (close to 6PM). On the way down Tuckerman Trail there was a guy with his friend who was literally lunging forward 2-3 steps and collapsing in exhaustion (of course no backpack or supplies between them). I assume they took the shuttle down or hitched a ride because that guy was not getting down the way he came. I would point out the popular trails I've done in NY this Summer had an equally large percentage of grossly under-equipped, clueless hikers out peak bagging so it's nothing unique to NH. I still find it absolutely stunning that there aren't more accidents than there are. Seems impossibly lucky given the percentage of people out there that are truly winging it. If the kind of hiking traffic we've seen the past few years continues to escalate I'd imagine this trend won't possibly hold up.
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Define "nowadays"?

I've mentioned this before, but incidents like these have been happening for at least 45 years. As long as I've been in these mountains. I committed some of them myself.

Curious, for the sake of argument, what you would have said if you saw me wearing a pair of shorts, flip-flops, a t-shirt, hat, carrying a beer as I walked around between Adams and Jefferson one evening around 6:00 pm. Is that what one could consider 'unprepared'?

As our populace expands, we reach new places. Not always with the best knowledge and experience to do so. I'm sure there are as many issues with biking, diving, skydiving, climbing, etc. The hope is you learn the hard way, don't kill yourself or anyone else in the process, and become the wiser.

If I were to take a poll, how many on here could truthfully say they've never done anything that would've made the papers and we'd shake our heads at them if it happened today? I can think of probably a dozen infractions.
 
dug said:
Curious, for the sake of argument, what you would have said if you saw me wearing a pair of shorts, flip-flops, a t-shirt, hat, carrying a beer as I walked around between Adams and Jefferson one evening around 6:00 pm.
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Can I borrow your bottle opener?
 
Incidents like this are both common and nothing new. I've been seeing it for 30+ year's. I give advice, only when asked, otherwise, I mind my own business. The Whites are rugged, when amateurs climb them, sometimes they suffer for it. Signs imo, wouldn't put a dent in it.
 
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