Winter training

Hi everyone,

I'm a new member so I apologize if this topic has been covered already. I'm curious as to how other members stay in hiking shape in the winter, short of doing actual winter hiking? I live in the NH area so I normally hike in the Whites, but I haven't done winter hiking in years and I'm just not a big fan of it - I mostly hike solo and I don't like the idea of going out alone into snow/ice.

Just a little about myself - I'm in pretty decent shape and have done a number of long hikes, including the Pemi Loop in about 13.5 hours and the Presi Traverse (incl Jackson/Webster) in just over 10 hours. Normally I begin hiking in May and work up my endurance, but next April I'm planning to do a R2R2R in the Grand Canyon (40+ miles), so I won't have the benefit of any training in the Whites ahead of time. I do run in the winter (treadmill or outside, weather permitting), but I've never done any "hiking training" in the winter. Does anyone have any suggestions on the best exercises to do in the winter, to work up the endurance for a very long day hike in April? I'm guessing stairs or incline, but what is a good training regimen to follow?

Thanks a bunch!

NW

While I haven't read it yet, I've heard good things about results from following the plan in this book:
http://www.patagonia.com/product/training-for-the-new-alpinism/BK695.html

It's my opinion that these days, hiking "solo" in the Whites, even in the winter, is a bit of a misnomer. That is, if you hike on Sat. or Sun. and do one of the "48" you might arrive at the trailhead alone but you will not be alone out on the trail. For instance, if you hike Pierce from Crawford Notch on Sat. between 9 and 4, you will find yourself hiking with many people. I don't think you have to worry about being out there injured and alone. With normal snow conditions many of the trails, once broken in, are actually easier and even safer in the winter as there is less chance of turning an ankle or slipping on a root and things like that. There are other rewards. With good snow the trails especially up high are absolutely beautiful. Although with some experience you will probably want to, it is not necessary to go far above the treeline. There are plenty of hikes that could help to keep you in shape that are within or barely above the treeline.

heathcliff said:

Does anyone have any suggestions on the best exercises to do in the winter, to work up the endurance for a very long day hike in April? I'm guessing stairs or incline, but what is a good training regimen to follow?

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Maybe get a bicycle and ride on a trainer or roads or on bike paths when conditions permit? Another option is to get a pair of cross country skis and visit some local areas with groomed trails.

I like to do HIGH repetition deep knee bends (5 sets) at least once a week. Try to increase your reps as time goes by.

I have a commercial grade stair climber which is better than nothing but realistically nothing beats hiking. If you hike on weekends and pick your weather, there really is no such thing as solo hiking on the 4KS. The winter use is substantial. Of course if you want to stay in shape strap on snowshoes and break trail. If the woods (or fields) are open just walk parallel to the beaten down trail. An hour of snowshoeing especially uphill is worth a couple of hours of hiking.

Wearing ankle weights and/or a pack while you use the inclined tread mill helps simulate winter hiking.

Thanks for the tips! So the truth is - I don't like winter hiking because I'm somewhat lazy (logistically speaking). I ski with my kids in the winter, so it's a bit difficult to work in winter hikes on the weekends.

I do have a nice treadmill that can go up to 15 degree inclines. Right now my routine is to run 3-4 times a week (30 minutes at my max speed) on flat setting, mostly just to stay in cardio shape. I'm thinking about switching to inclines for the winter, but at what incline (15?) and for how long? Is it better to do shorter intervals at faster speeds (to gain strength), or better to go for a few hours at a lower speed (to simulate hiking)? When I do the R2R2R, I will probably go light (small backpack of food; 1L of water plus filter to pick up water along the way), so maybe I should strap that on for my workouts too?

Thanks again for all the good tips!

Oh and I also work in a building with 45 stories (Boston), so I can do stairs too. I hate it because it's so tough (not to mention boring) but it's probably a good workout too

bignslow said:

While I haven't read it yet, I've heard good things about results from following the plan in this book:
http://www.patagonia.com/product/training-for-the-new-alpinism/BK695.html

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I'm reading this right now actually and it is an excellent book. Very detailed coverage of all aspects of climbing, very sport specific and tons of real life excerpts from climbing icons like Meissner, Steck and others. Based on the examples you cited your fitness level is already quite good (way better than mine anyway). This book recommends very large amounts of low intensity volume of a non-hiking specific nature so it sounds to me like you are already well on track for what you are trying to do. Strength training is also a component and it does have recommended exercises. The book is excellent and set up quite well for how you are planning so I'd highly recommend reading it.

jfb said:

Maybe get a bicycle and ride on a trainer or roads or on bike paths when conditions permit? Another option is to get a pair of cross country skis and visit some local areas with groomed trails.

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The above mentioned book is not a big fan of "non-weight bearing" exercises like bike riding because your body weight is supported and doesn't truly tax and train all of your muscle groups in the same way they are used in hiking and climbing. One of the major points of the book was that you will "get good at what you train" so if you do exercises that don't directly translate into the movements used hiking you won't push your performance as much and see as much of a pay off. Running and cross country skiing were highly recommended and apparently are the volume exercises of choice for many top climbers.

heathcliff said:

Thanks for the tips! So the truth is - I don't like winter hiking because I'm somewhat lazy (logistically speaking). I ski with my kids in the winter, so it's a bit difficult to work in winter hikes on the weekends.

I do have a nice treadmill that can go up to 15 degree inclines. Right now my routine is to run 3-4 times a week (30 minutes at my max speed) on flat setting, mostly just to stay in cardio shape. I'm thinking about switching to inclines for the winter, but at what incline (15?) and for how long? Is it better to do shorter intervals at faster speeds (to gain strength), or better to go for a few hours at a lower speed (to simulate hiking)? When I do the R2R2R, I will probably go light (small backpack of food; 1L of water plus filter to pick up water along the way), so maybe I should strap that on for my workouts too?

Thanks again for all the good tips!

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Based on what I have read many, many hours at lower intensity (Zone 1) is better than shorter spans of high intensity. Not to keep mentioning the above book (I am not getting kick backs for it ) but most of your volume should be at a pace where you can nose breath comfortably (a heart rate roughly 50-60% of your max). Your higher intensity training and strength training will build off of this aerobic base.

DayTrip said:

The above mentioned book is not a big fan of "non-weight bearing" exercises like bike riding because your body weight is supported and doesn't truly tax and train all of your muscle groups in the same way they are used in hiking and climbing. One of the major points of the book was that you will "get good at what you train" so if you do exercises that don't directly translate into the movements used hiking you won't push your performance as much and see as much of a pay off. Running and cross country skiing were highly recommended and apparently are the volume exercises of choice for many top climbers.

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I'll agree with your comment, but add that for someone who is already including running in his training program, cycling would continue to provide some aerobic benefits while reducing the possibility of impact damage to weight bearing parts of the body.

heathcliff said:

I ski with my kids in the winter, so it's a bit difficult to work in winter hikes on the weekends.

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Skiing moguls would help build leg strength.

Just a thing on the R2R2R- as you probably know the dryness and possible heat will kick your butt like nothing else. Need to keep a close eye on how you and any partners are doing. 1L of water might only last you an hour if it's hot. Good to have some climate specific exercise under your belt to know how you will react.

Whoa, I had skimmed over that this was training for the R2R2R...that's a whole other issue.

It depends on when in April you're doing it, and exactly what the year turns out like. I did it the first weekend in April, but it was a very low snow year, and we didn't leave home until we'd checked North Rim webcams to make sure it was clear. Of course you will not have water at the North Rim or between Phantom and the South Rim (except Indian Gardens, if you go up Bright Angel.) You may have to haul both a large amount of water and quite a bit of clothing, not to mention the food. Grinding out big elevation with some load is definitely the way to train. I think people tend to underestimate the downhills; my legs were shot from going down Bright Angel too fast and I had to stop for awhile at Cottonwood to get myself together. That also meant I couldn't run down from the North Rim, which was very disappointing as I'd been looking forward to that! Downhill training pretty well eliminates the treadmill as an exclusive training plan. Honestly one of the best things you could do would be laps on a 4000-footer, so you have both uphill and downhill on tired legs. I also note that, on a R2R2R in April, you are likely to see fewer people than winter hiking on a NH 4K and will be further from help.

Your best bets are going to be winter hiking and, secondarily, lung-busting intervals, up AND down, on the stairs, with a pack. The climbs up to both rims are fairly steep and quite smooth, much like snow-covered NH trails...

In your runs, all of the above, too...practice some uphill intervals with downhill recovery, and downhill intervals with uphill recovery (injury risk!), and also do some intervals with squats or lunges in between...this helps with the switch between strength-based uphill hiking and more endurance-based level hiking. The advantage of the bike is you get a bit of eccentric work on the quads that can help work up to the hard downhill work. You'll need to make sure the fit is proper so you're able to put weight on the legs. If bike is "non-weight-bearing," you're doing it wrong.

The Rims are high enough that you're likely to face some altitude effect, but not much for that besides HTFU and slow down. The one exception is staying up on your calories...if you're starting to bonk and then your body gets unhappy with altitude, you're going to have a very hard time playing caloric catch-up.

The R2R2R was one of the best (and worst) days of my life. It's almost impossible to overprepare. Have an awesome time.

EDIT: There is pretty well no place that has water which isn't already potable. The only places I can think of are Roaring Spring (which is far enough out of the way that it's not really worth it unless you're completely dry coming down from the North Rim), the creek around the Rainbow Falls turnoff (at which point you might as well go through to Cottonwood), and the creek in the Box (at which point you're very close to Phantom). Plan on the 17-ish mile round trip from the Pumphouse to the North Rim and back on what you're carrying. 2L bare minimum; I carried 3.

heathcliff said:

I do have a nice treadmill that can go up to 15 degree inclines. Right now my routine is to run 3-4 times a week (30 minutes at my max speed) on flat setting, mostly just to stay in cardio shape. I'm thinking about switching to inclines for the winter, but at what incline (15?) and for how long? Is it better to do shorter intervals at faster speeds (to gain strength), or better to go for a few hours at a lower speed (to simulate hiking)? When I do the R2R2R, I will probably go light (small backpack of food; 1L of water plus filter to pick up water along the way), so maybe I should strap that on for my workouts too?

Thanks again for all the good tips!

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Cross training with a variety of these options would be good. You sound athletic; my guess is you will feel which things are helpful. My one suggestion regarding treadmill training, and one that really helps me get in shape when I need is to train for running at a 10% incline. Begin with 5% and lower speeds so you can maintain. Its endurance training but it helps strength as well. When you get comfortable at 5%, move it up to 10% and alternate a few minutes between each grade trying to maintain a steady heart rate and balanced breathing. If you're not used to running up hill, it will change your HR and respiration quickly but as you train, the body will respond and work to bring you back to balance and running at 10% becomes easier. The better shape you are in cardiovascularly, the quicker this transition will likely be. You can run at 12% as well although 15% is rather awkward for running with a short bed on the treadmill. It seems hard, then it becomes manageable. I do this more in winter and spring than the other half of the year.

I definitely appreciate all the advice, especially the R2R2R specific ones. It will certainly be a challenge, and I'll be happy to just survive it. Not at all looking to beat a certain time, etc. I will probably take it very easy coming down South Rim (walk or light jog at the most), and figure out the right pace as I go up North Kaibab.

It also sounds like I need to do some winter hiking. So be it. I bought some microspikes last year but never used it out of my laziness. Will break them out this year. I will also mix in plenty of inclines and stairs during the week to build endurance and strength.

Just a quick question re: water sources at R2R2R - so I'm not worried about the South Rim to Phantom stretch, since I can always fill up down there (on the way down and on the way up), so it's really just the Phantom to North Rim stretch I should be worried about, right? What are the guaranteed water sources between Phantom and North Rim in April? Cottonwood? Roaring Spring? Pumphouse? And are all these water sources right on the trail or do I have to go off trail? I also saw that there seems to be a creek that runs along most of lower North Kaibab - is that non-accessible from the trail? Is there any chance that North Rim would have water in April? If there isn't a natural creek that's easily accessible, it sounds like I shouldn't bother with my filter then? Finally, what about food? Can I buy things at Phantom to take with me? Is it worth caching food so I don't have to carry everything all the way up to North Rim and back?

When I last did the Pemi Loop, I went from Lincoln Woods counter-clockwise to Galehead Hut (17 miles) on 1L of water, but I also bonked pretty badly and the rest of the trip was just pure misery. As a result my descent was a lot slower than my ascent (2mph vs 3mph), which means I need to plan a lot better for the R2R2R!!!

You should probably do some googling for R2R2R; it's fun to read people's reports. I know somewhere there's a google doc where people record whether the water's on. I'm certainly not going to get everything right here

Mostly reliable, potable water in the "off season" is more-or-less directly on-trail at Indian Garden (BA), Phantom, Cottonwood (NK), and the pumphouse (NK). Nothing on SK. There's untreated water in Bright Angel creek, but if you can't get from Phantom to Cottonwood and then to the Pumphouse without refilling water, you're in deep trouble. Between the pumphouse and the North Rim the only option is a side trip to Roaring Spring, which does need to be treated as much as any surface source. I didn't carry a filter but did carry a few chlorine dioxide tablets in case of extremity. I say "mostly" reliable because all water in the cross-canyon corridor (and I think even the South Rim) comes from Roaring Spring and the pipes do sometimes break. "Ask a ranger." People do die trying to fill from the Colorado so if the taps are down at Phantom, pop up to the creek.

As far as food, there's the canteen at Phantom which we didn't use; occasionally I hear of R2R2Rers getting a lemonade there but I don't think it's quite as reliable a source of snacks as, say, the AMC huts. Supposedly the artist-in-residence at the Pumphouse will sometimes leave out a cooler of lemonade but again, don't depend on it. I'd shy away from caching food in the cross-canyon corridor; too many potential wildlife or human issues and it's not going to save that much weight. The one thing I did regret was being down to liquid calories only and having no interest in drinking; one more pack of fig newtons would have made life a lot happier. I also probably should have brought the windpants I dropped out of the pack at the last moment. Lightening the load is good; there's a lot of climbing, but the footing is also so good that a few ounces for margin can be well worth it.

Note that the payphone at Phantom only takes calling cards; we were told it took credit cards and that left us without communication back up. Fortunately our South Rim support guessed when the faster guys needed the pickup at SK and I got to the trailhead just as the last bus pulled up, so lucky me.

You will find that until you reach Phantom, everything and everybody will be working to convince you not to continue. The longest recommended dayhike from the South Rim is Indian Garden. Don't volunteer that you're doing R2R2R unless directly asked; just "out for a long dayhike." Around Cottonwood is the tipping point and the assumption is you're at least doing R2R and the goal is to keep you alive rather than talk you out. From that point on, in April, it's likely the only people you see will also be doing R2R2R, and there may be none of those. Once you get your carcass back to the South Rim everybody will be duly impressed that you did it, and happy that you didn't fail in such a way that they had to come and haul you out.

Very helpful advice, jniehof!

I'll definitely have to do more research on active water-stations as we get closer to next April. But it sounds like North Rim itself has no water around 4/10? I should be OK on water as I'm not a huge drinker and I've gone 17 miles (Lincoln Woods to Galehead hut) on 1L of water before, so it sounds like, unless the temperature spikes (unlikely in April), 2L is the most I would need for any stretch for R2R2R. How many calories of food do you recommend? One time for the Pemi Loop I carried a whole order of fried rice (plus nuts and fruit) and it was overkill, but another time I only carried 2 PB&J's and I bonked. R2R2R is obviously longer but the terrain sounds easier, so I'm wondering if the Pemi Loop could be used as a proxy for how I should prepare for it?

By the way, why is there a need for pickup/support for an R2R2R? I was going to drive myself to the trail head, sleep in the car overnight, do an in/out the next day, and drive myself out afterwards.