WMNF Parking Fee Increase Proposal Jan 30,2017 Comment Deadline

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Apologies if this is in another thread, I searched for "parking fee" ("fee" is to short for the server) and did not see anything

Seriously? No more weekly passes?


Release Date: Dec 13, 2016
...........


This past summer the Forest asked for public comments on a proposal to change recreation fees including increasing the cost of a daily recreation pass from $3 to $5, an annual pass from $25 to $30, and eliminating the weekly and household passes. The household pass enables people in the same household to purchase passes for two vehicles at a reduced fee. After a review of the comments received, it became clear that the household recreation pass - is an important option for many families to be able to recreate on the national forest. We are now proposing to retain this pass option but increase the pass from $25 to $40.

Comments are being accepted on the change to the Household Recreation Pass proposal until January 30, 2017. Please send your comments to Marianne Leberman, Recreation & Wilderness Program Leader at: Marianne Leberman, White Mountain National Forest, 71 White Mountain Drive, Campton, NH 03223-4272.


https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/whitemountain/news-events/?cid=FSEPRD527658
 
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Apologies if this is in another thread, I searched for "parking fee" ("fee" is to short for the server) and did not see anything

Seriously? No more weekly passes?


Release Date: Dec 13, 2016
...........


This past summer the Forest asked for public comments on a proposal to change recreation fees including increasing the cost of a daily recreation pass from $3 to $5, an annual pass from $25 to $30, and eliminating the weekly and household passes. The household pass enables people in the same household to purchase passes for two vehicles at a reduced fee. After a review of the comments received, it became clear that the household recreation pass - is an important option for many families to be able to recreate on the national forest. We are now proposing to retain this pass option but increase the pass from $25 to $40.

Comments are being accepted on the change to the Household Recreation Pass proposal until January 30, 2017. Please send your comments to Marianne Leberman, Recreation & Wilderness Program Leader at: Marianne Leberman, White Mountain National Forest, 71 White Mountain Drive, Campton, NH 03223-4272.


https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/whitemountain/news-events/?cid=FSEPRD527658

Hasn't this been getting proposed for several years? I remember reading about this when I first joined this forum. Is it finally happening??
 
Hasn't this been getting proposed for several years? I remember reading about this when I first joined this forum. Is it finally happening??

I can't believe they are asking for a 60% increase in fees for a household pass, especially because "it is an important option for many families to be able to recreate on the national forest"
 
I do suggest that complaining about it on a forum will amount to nothing. Send an old fashion letter to the FS and copy your congressional delegation. Far more effective.
 
Bob: So how does that work at the THs, do just leave it visible on your dash.

It appears that you take a day pass at the TH and write in your pass number in the designated box. One part goes in the iron ranger and the other on your dash, just as if you were paying cash.
 
I do suggest that complaining about it on a forum will amount to nothing. Send an old fashion letter to the FS and copy your congressional delegation. Far more effective.

Thanks for your feedback. The press release was mid December 2016. There were no other threads after that date, and the comment time is now closing. The issue is relevant to the members. By highlighting a 60 percent increase, I was both expressing my displeasure and making the community aware of all of the above.

Obviously, no one will respond to the USFS if they are not aware of the issue.
 
I can't believe they are asking for a 60% increase in fees for a household pass...

Here's another point of view....

The national Parks and forests are woefully underfunded by the Fed Govt, to the point where some NPs are seeking commercial sponsorship to help make ends meet.

And in the coming Trump era, god only know what the funding situation will be.

It's my understanding that all WMNF pass revenue is used locally in the WNNF and not passed through to other places.

In the era of $20 water bottles and $150 SPOT locators, I think most of us can man-up and pay $5 more a year for a pass to our favorite national Forest.

Sheesh!

cb
 
Here's another point of view....

The national Parks and forests are woefully underfunded by the Fed Govt, to the point where some NPs are seeking commercial sponsorship to help make ends meet.

And in the coming Trump era, god only know what the funding situation will be.

It's my understanding that all WMNF pass revenue is used locally in the WNNF and not passed through to other places.

In the era of $20 water bottles and $150 SPOT locators, I think most of us can man-up and pay $5 more a year for a pass to our favorite national Forest.

Sheesh!

cb

Well, I am not sure where you are getting the data that Forests and Parks are underfunded, but let's assume that is true. If the measure passes, and Forests and Parks gets adequate funding, then what is to keep the executive branch from making further cuts, followed by more compensatory fee increases? And so on and so forth. In truth, all monies are going to the same organization. Certainly inflation may merit an increase, but inflation is not 60% compounded over the years of the last program.

Perhaps I am missing something... What improvements have been made that would justify a large increase? I think the that when the fee program was initiated, many people were happy with the improved facilities at Lincoln Woods.

I don't want to bring specific ideologies into the mix. I don't think it really matters, and there is no place for it here.
Best,

Remix
 
Bob: So how does that work at the THs, do just leave it visible on your dash. Do you know if the visitor center at Lincoln sells the senior passes?

Yes. I leave my card in the lower lefthand corner of my windshield. I got my senior pass in Lincoln, Massachusetts. The link I posted tells you how to send away for it.
 
A forest service employee commented to me several years ago that any revenue from the fee was subtracted from their overall budget. It made a difference early before the budget process negated it and I expect the same will happen this time. The biggest impact to the FS budget which is country wide is the onoing western forest fires, these are predominantly funded by raiding the budgets of all the National Forests.
 
It's no surprise to me, although I am surprised it took them this long to raise the fee. In discussions about the pass before it's inception, my comment was, yeah 25 bucks may seem ok, but it will cost more down the road. I'm kind of ambivalent about it now. I've bought 2 or 3, some years my pass is way over do. I'm just not seeing much difference since it's inception, besides more rangers to patrol the area. I will say this, if some of the money goes to fighting forest fires, that would make me feel better. I've seen homes destroyed by wildfires and I would be glad to help with those efforts, even if it's in other states.
 
Remix,

WRT the overall funding of national parks and forests, the links below provide interesting reading from both sides of the political spectrum:

Here’s Where Our National Park Funding Comes From -- Outside Mag

We need new ways to fund our national parks -- The Hill

Americans Value National Parks, but Funding Is Lacking -- US News

National parks face severe funding crunch -- Washington Post

cb


I read through the cited articles and saw many opinions, generally reflecting that the amount requested by the agency was more than the amount granted to the agency. Thus there is an opinion that the agency is underfunded. I did not see any source propose efficiency improvements, or question how the existing funding is allocated.

On the other hand, anyone can find economic data that shows that real wages for most Americans stopped growing in the 2000's, and that health care costs have skyrocketed.

Lets not go into the fog any further.

Here is a concrete example: California state parks have (or are) being underfunded. There is no room for opinion. The reason is that the facilities were closed, some with no planned re-opening. See http://www.reopenmitchellcaverns.org/

The same thing happened when parks were closed for government shutdowns--it was obvious that there was no money.

So, with regard to the 60% parking pass increase:
Anything in the WMNF on the verge of being closed?
Are there any facilities which have to be closed due to infrastructure problems?
Are there any critical services which must be cut due to funding problems?
Is USDA going to stop paying New Hampshire towns Payments-In-Lieu-Of-Taxes?

Again, if something is going to be shut down or something needs critical funding, perhaps I missed it. By all means, make it known. Or, in light of a 60% increase in fees, what goods or services are going to be improved as a result of the increase?


With regard to fire fighting, I cannot imagine that any agency would allow a fire to continue to burn because there is a lack of funding. Typically equipment is shifted nation-wide, private contractors are hired, and emergency appropriations balance the books.

As an aside, I believe that all Canadian park entry fees (not usage fees like campgrounds or backcountry permits) are being waived this year.
 
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The USDA has not been paying full PILT payments to towns for many years. They work up a value based on a formula and then hand the towns some lesser percentage as they were not supplied the funding to fund the full amount.

There was no talk about not funding the forest fires, the issue is that they funded them by cutting the approved budgets of all the forests. Unfortunately with gridlock in congress I expect any emergency appropriations are delayed and in the end I doubt the funds are routed back the forests they were raided from. Unlike the National Parks that have lobbying organization ( National Parks Conservation Association) that serves to funnel private money to the parks around the budgeting process, there is no equivalent organization for the NFs. With the big push for transfer of federal lands to the states (and ultimately to private control) I expect the BLM and FS lands will get the majority of the impact over the National Parks.

Critical services will get funded, what goes are the non critical services. An example was that the FS had gotten funding to install radio repeaters on Carrigan and Cabot two years ago, they were pushed through the permitting process as they were required for safety, they didn't get installed. I do not know if the funding raid delayed this project but this might be good example, the repeaters were to cover weak/non existent radio reception in parts of the WMNF, they have lived without them for years but at some point the lack of this coverage could become critical if someone gets in trouble in those areas. I expect lack of funding is also in the background on decisions not to repair infrastructure like the bridge in the Pemi a few years ago, the bridge in the Wild River area this year and the Thoreau Falls trail bridge whose fate is delayed at this point. Sure they advertise it under the guise removal of non conforming structures from wilderness areas but I expect the budget is in the background. Dry River Trail was supposed to be reconstructed, the FS managed to run out of money to rebuild it s(while they built the road to nowhere to service the pit toilet at the east side campground) the solution was to but in some temporary relocations around the damaged sections after a couple of years and inform the public that they are lucky to even get that.

By the way the state of Maine is doubling the cost for annual camp ground passes.

Given the shift in Washington I expect the federal lands in general are in for rough four years.
 
So, with regard to the 60% parking pass increase: Anything in the WMNF on the verge of being closed?

Why do we have to fall off the cliff before we recognize a problem?

It's called maintaining infrastructure and, while many are loathe to do it, it's inevitable (and costly).

I for one am happy to pony up a few addl bucks before the bridge collapses, the trail gets covered with blow downs or lean too turns to dust.

BTW - Who funded and financed the rebuild the Dry River trail after the flood damage?

cb
 
The Dry River Trail rebuild along with several other storm related rebuilds like the East Side truck road; the rebuilds in the Waterville valley area, and the Lincoln Woods washout were lumped into a special FS line item associated with Irene. Unfortunately the projects that were done tended to be overkill and way over budget. One decision by the WMNF supervisor was to use only non powered tools and methods to do repairs in a wilderness area. Built into the wilderness act is the option for the local supervisor to use power tools and equipment in response to an emergency, with the "stroke of a pen" the work could have been done quicker and cheaper but the supervisor decided to be politically correct and elect not to take that option. Unfortunately by the time they got around to the Dry River they had run out of money to do anything except hang some flagging in the woods.

One of the classic budget scams is to shift employee costs from underfunded operating accounts to special funding accounts, I expect that was used which means the capital account for storm repairs got drained quicker. Remember, the various administrators in the FS tend to move frequently, their only goal is to delay the inevitable and hope they are gone before the results of the short term decisions catch up with the long term.

Anyone who has walked the East Side truck "road to nowhere" will probably agree that they went way overboard for a dead end road whose entire purpose appears to be to provide truck access to pump out the pit toilet at a campground.
 
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