Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 107

Thread: New Book on Kate M.

  1. #91
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Worcester, MA
    Posts
    415
    I apologize if I state this poorly, but...

    The misreported location did allow the SAR Team to avoid the direct decision of whether or not to attempt to reach the Star Lake location at the night during the height of the storm. If that Star Lake location had been their only information, the SAR Team would have been forced, by her actions, to make a very difficult decision at the treeline.

    That is not to belittle what the SAR Team did accomplish. I can't imagine going into that ravine on that night in those condtions. As I read that part of the story, I was "happy?" " grateful?" they used the rule of four and had two others on standby at their jump off point ready to assist them.

  2. #92
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Lewiston, and Biddeford Maine
    Posts
    664
    I believe the only reason they went into the ravine was because of the misreported location. Its also stated in the book that under no circumstances was anyone going above treeline.

  3. #93
    Senior Member akafuzzjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Pepperell, MA
    Posts
    110
    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    I believe the only reason they went into the ravine was because of the misreported location. Its also stated in the book that under no circumstances was anyone going above treeline.
    Correct - no plans to go above treeline that first night.
    Reaching the summit is optional, getting down is mandatory. (Ed Viesturs)

    NH 4K Grid #69
    Three-Season: ADK 46 #10140, NH 48, New England 67, and Northeast 115
    Winter: ADK 46 #10140W, NH 48, New England 67, New England Hundred Highest #120, and Northeast 115 #92
    Others: CO 14ers 28/58, Catskills 7/35, and Northeast 8 Ultra 5/8
    Trail Adopter: Caps Ridge Trail from Trailhead to Summit of Jefferson
    Organizer: Random Group of Hikers (www.meetup.com/rndmhkrs)

  4. #94
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Beginning and End
    Posts
    832

    What Counts

    Quote Originally Posted by akafuzzjones View Post
    Correct - no plans to go above treeline that first night.
    All this discussion about the accuracy and reliability of location devices ignores one critically important factor: You must be able to survive on your own until rescuers arrive.

    Even if her device operated flawlessly, providing consistently accurate position indicators, there is no way (given what she carried) she could have successfully survived for 12-20 hours hunkered down awaiting a rescue.

    And that is the fatal trade off of the fast and light approach: If nothing goes wrong you are a hero. When something bad happens you can quickly become a statistic.

    cb
    Last edited by ChrisB; 11-01-2017 at 07:48 AM.
    Nobody told me there'd be days like these
    Strange days indeed -- most peculiar, mama
    .

  5. #95
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Worcester, MA
    Posts
    415
    Quote Originally Posted by akafuzzjones View Post
    Correct - no plans to go above treeline that first night.
    I may have to work on my reading comprehension. I remember the book passage stating that there was no way the USFS was going to ask a SAR Team to enter King Ravine that night.

    But I thought the decision to go above treeline was left to the SAR Team to decide based on the conditions when they got up there and that they were not forced to make it since they decide to check the second location instead.

  6. #96
    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    'Springtime' on the Carters (Tamworth, NH)
    Posts
    2,066
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    When something bad happens you can quickly become a statistic.
    The denominator isn't so bad, but it's the numerator you have to look out for.
    | 63.8% W48: 19/48
    Trail Adopter of the Guinea Pond Trail

  7. #97
    Senior Member akafuzzjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Pepperell, MA
    Posts
    110
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Murphy View Post
    I may have to work on my reading comprehension. I remember the book passage stating that there was no way the USFS was going to ask a SAR Team to enter King Ravine that night.

    But I thought the decision to go above treeline was left to the SAR Team to decide based on the conditions when they got up there and that they were not forced to make it since they decide to check the second location instead.
    The decision to not enter the ravine seemed to have been made before the MSR team left (121) and the decision to go above treeline was going to be made along the route. When MSR met with F&G on Valley Way they decided they weren’t going above treeline. (128)
    Reaching the summit is optional, getting down is mandatory. (Ed Viesturs)

    NH 4K Grid #69
    Three-Season: ADK 46 #10140, NH 48, New England 67, and Northeast 115
    Winter: ADK 46 #10140W, NH 48, New England 67, New England Hundred Highest #120, and Northeast 115 #92
    Others: CO 14ers 28/58, Catskills 7/35, and Northeast 8 Ultra 5/8
    Trail Adopter: Caps Ridge Trail from Trailhead to Summit of Jefferson
    Organizer: Random Group of Hikers (www.meetup.com/rndmhkrs)

  8. #98
    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New hampshire
    Posts
    2,665
    Quote Originally Posted by TCD View Post
    Of course one can only speculate, but given her small size and the extremely high winds, her body may have been being "rag-dolled" around by the wind for a while. Maybe not blown any significant distance, but maybe tumbling around and being reoriented frequently. Doing that to the PLB could certainly contribute to the appearance of "bouncing locations."
    Now, that's really just adding pure speculation, which has limited value at best. The device has an antenna that should be "up", it was down and in her pack. That makes more sense then, her being blown around, imo.

  9. #99
    Senior Member akafuzzjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Pepperell, MA
    Posts
    110
    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Boss View Post
    "The final SAR report ... they only recovered a SPOT" and "... she activated the SPOT 11 times". If it's not in Ty's book, where did they get this stuff? One of these two parties doesn't have the story straight.

    Is the "final SAR report" available online?
    I confirmed what I wrote earlier and what is in the book with Ty last night. It was the ResQLink 375. It is whatís listed in the SAR report (which he saw) and the photo inventory of what was in her pack. There were a few ďspotĒ references and he has no idea where they got that information since no one he interviewed ever said it was a spot.
    Reaching the summit is optional, getting down is mandatory. (Ed Viesturs)

    NH 4K Grid #69
    Three-Season: ADK 46 #10140, NH 48, New England 67, and Northeast 115
    Winter: ADK 46 #10140W, NH 48, New England 67, New England Hundred Highest #120, and Northeast 115 #92
    Others: CO 14ers 28/58, Catskills 7/35, and Northeast 8 Ultra 5/8
    Trail Adopter: Caps Ridge Trail from Trailhead to Summit of Jefferson
    Organizer: Random Group of Hikers (www.meetup.com/rndmhkrs)

  10. #100
    Senior Member akafuzzjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Pepperell, MA
    Posts
    110
    Quote Originally Posted by TCD View Post
    Of course one can only speculate, but given her small size and the extremely high winds, her body may have been being "rag-dolled" around by the wind for a while. Maybe not blown any significant distance, but maybe tumbling around and being reoriented frequently. Doing that to the PLB could certainly contribute to the appearance of "bouncing locations."
    The unit was found in her pack with the antenna folded. It would appear that she initially signaled using it correctly and then closed it up and put it back in her pack. While itís quote possible her pack was moved by the wind itís more likely the mid-pings were the result of the folded antenna and unit not facing skyward. The unit was tested afterwards (obviously not in the same conditions) and it worked perfectly.
    Reaching the summit is optional, getting down is mandatory. (Ed Viesturs)

    NH 4K Grid #69
    Three-Season: ADK 46 #10140, NH 48, New England 67, and Northeast 115
    Winter: ADK 46 #10140W, NH 48, New England 67, New England Hundred Highest #120, and Northeast 115 #92
    Others: CO 14ers 28/58, Catskills 7/35, and Northeast 8 Ultra 5/8
    Trail Adopter: Caps Ridge Trail from Trailhead to Summit of Jefferson
    Organizer: Random Group of Hikers (www.meetup.com/rndmhkrs)

  11. #101
    Senior Member Raven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    NH Seacoast
    Posts
    1,702
    It seems to me people toss around the terms 'Spot' and 'PLB' fairly generically. It's too bad she didn't replace some of those electronics with a sleeping bag.

    Read the book if you haven't. Good detail.
    Humankind has not woven the web of life.
    We are but one thread within it.
    Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
    All things are bound together.
    All things connect.
    ~ Chief Seattle, 1854 ~

  12. #102
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Beginning and End
    Posts
    832
    Quote Originally Posted by akafuzzjones View Post
    The unit was found in her pack with the antenna folded. It would appear that she initially signaled using it correctly and then closed it up and put it back in her pack.
    A selfie she took at the Madison Hut shows frost nip on her face. My theory is that several hours later, at the time she deployed the beacon, she was feeling the effects of hypothermia. If that was the case, she can't be faulted for the poor decision to put the device in her pack.

    Running on empty and probably not thinking clearly she did the best she could.

    cb
    Nobody told me there'd be days like these
    Strange days indeed -- most peculiar, mama
    .

  13. #103
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Lewiston, and Biddeford Maine
    Posts
    664
    It was heroic that she was even able to properly deploy it in that condition

  14. #104
    Senior Member akafuzzjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Pepperell, MA
    Posts
    110
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    A selfie she took at the Madison Hut shows frost nip on her face. My theory is that several hours later, at the time she deployed the beacon, she was feeling the effects of hypothermia. If that was the case, she can't be faulted for the poor decision to put the device in her pack.

    Running on empty and probably not thinking clearly she did the best she could.

    cb
    Agree. She might have been feeling it well before that which clouded judgement to even continue.

    Think itís interesting about the operation of the unit - I donít own a PLB so never had to read the instructions but Iíve talked to others who do and while they were aware of the antenna and face plate up they never considered the potential ramifications of putting it away while it was still active.
    Reaching the summit is optional, getting down is mandatory. (Ed Viesturs)

    NH 4K Grid #69
    Three-Season: ADK 46 #10140, NH 48, New England 67, and Northeast 115
    Winter: ADK 46 #10140W, NH 48, New England 67, New England Hundred Highest #120, and Northeast 115 #92
    Others: CO 14ers 28/58, Catskills 7/35, and Northeast 8 Ultra 5/8
    Trail Adopter: Caps Ridge Trail from Trailhead to Summit of Jefferson
    Organizer: Random Group of Hikers (www.meetup.com/rndmhkrs)

  15. #105
    Senior Member TCD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,878
    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    Now, that's really just adding pure speculation, which has limited value at best. The device has an antenna that should be "up", it was down and in her pack. That makes more sense then, her being blown around, imo.
    Well, I do agree it was speculative. But it was based on some real observations. If you watch the video of the rescuers taken the next day, you can watch a much larger and heavier man being blown across the snow by the wind, which had subsided considerable at that point. 0:19 in this video, which was posted on the original thread about this incident.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP4u6VyrgCk

Similar Threads

  1. East Kate Sleeper
    By ronk in forum New Hampshire
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-05-2010, 07:32 PM
  2. S. Tripyramid/Kate Sleeper 5-26-09
    By Jabberwalk in forum New Hampshire
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-27-2009, 09:07 AM
  3. Kate Sleeper Trail 12/22/07
    By NH_Mtn_Hiker in forum New Hampshire
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-23-2007, 08:21 AM
  4. Lost Ice axe on the Kate Sleeper Trail
    By Tomahawk in forum General Backcountry
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-26-2006, 07:39 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •