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Thread: N.E. Clean Power Connect in Maine - Should we care ?

  1. #76
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    Looks like Hydro Quebec is getting worried

    https://www.mainepublic.org/post/hyd...-cmp-powerline

    The various paid advocates are saying its a game changer while the groups opposed say its a drop in the bucket. Maine is a major renewable power producer so it doesnt need renewable power but cheap power is definitely an eye opener. My guess is the deal limits power sales during grid peaks so the sales only happen when the power is less valuable.

    At this point CMP needs to put enough doubt in an undecided voters mind that they vote to allow the powerline.

  2. #77
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    A savings to each customer of about $4 a year. Yeah, still not buying it.

  3. #78
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    My limited understanding is they are offering a block of power to some specific large customers. The ones who sign up get the savings while the rest of the rate payers savings are nebulous at best. The state should just charge a transmission fee tied to KW shipped and the amount of congestion on the grid.

  4. #79
    Senior Member Vermonster's Avatar
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    Maine Supreme Court Says Ballot Initiative Aimed At Stopping CMP Project Is Unconstitutional
    In a devastating blow to opponents of Central Maine Power's controversial powerline proposal, the Maine Supreme Judicial Court ruled Thursday that a ballot initiative designed to scuttle the $1 billion project is unconstitutional. The ruling all but ensures that the referendum will not appear on the November ballot, leaving the project's many detractors to continue the fight on the permitting and legislative front.
    https://www.mainepublic.org/post/mai...constitutional

  5. #80
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  6. #81
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    Its coming down to the "wire"

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...r-construction

    I expect CMP is willing to work at risk without the presidential permit.

  7. #82
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  8. #83
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    On hold again

    https://scnow.com/business/court-put...6b5daea4c.html

    No doubt the last minute presidential permit will be litigated.

  9. #84
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    From the above link:

    "The Army Corps gave its approval in November and the project previously received approval from the Maine Department of Environmental Protection, Maine Land Use Planning Commission and Maine Public Utilities Commission".

    So some judge figures he knows more than those agencies who are actually tasked with evaluating the environmental impact of the project.

  10. #85
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    Like any highly politicized project, there are two sides to the coin. Close to a billion dollars for a project in Maine with 100s of millions in long term profits to the owners. There are multiple appeals filed on various permits that could take months or years to finalize. The project owner is working on the assumption that once they cut the swath and start the build that it gives them a major upper hand on those appeals. The various groups against the project are arguing that cutting the swath is going to do irreparable environmental harm.

    The majority of the state permits were finalized through under the orders of the new Maine governor when she took office. Maine had and still has no functional regulatory process for looking at overall state impacts of a large transmission project like CPC. CPC gerrymandered the alignment sticking to unorganized townships so that the LURP which was packed with LePage cronies rubber stamped the process. The new governors home district is Farmington and which will benefit greatly from the project construction. The Maine ratepayers get little or no long term benefit to the project. Its a separate operating division of CMP (owned by Avangrid) on the non regulated side of the business. The vast majority of profits go offshore, and with the exception of the construction phase, the majority of the benefits go to Mass which incidentally up until recently did not recognize Canadian hydro as clean or renewable. Its really just a rebranding exercise that does not impact global carbon reduction. There are no new hydro plants being built. Existing hydro generated power already being sold to ratepayers in Quebec will be replaced with natural gas generated power from underutilized plants https://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ticle28198115/ and the same "hydro power" will be sold to Mass at a premium. Its just NIMBY on an international level. Mass gets to greenwash fossil power and check off the box on the renewable portfolio standard. A European multinational wins, Hydro Quebec wins and Mass politicians win. No where do Maine residents win in the long run who incidentally when given a chance voted the project down.

    Luckily unlike Maine, NH had a functional statewide process for dealing with large projects, left over from a large oil refinery project and higher visibility and this project got moved to Maine. It far more out of sight and out of mind to the typical outdoor enthusiast than NH and thus the title of the thread "Should we care?"
    Last edited by peakbagger; 01-16-2021 at 04:25 PM.

  11. #86
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Where is there an oil refinery in Maine?

  12. #87
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    Sad to see that such significant regional history is being forgotten.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1974/01/27/a...governors.html

    https://classic.esquire.com/article/...otle-onassis-0

    The project was proposed in NH but would have impacted Southern Maine as it would have been downwind of the plume. In general Southern Maine and Southern NH would look far different. I would be surprised if there would not oil rigs out in the Gulf of Maine if it was built. No doubt if there was an oil spill in the gulf of Maine it would not respect borders.

    The NH Site Evaluation Committee (SEC) was formed in part to deal with "Megaprojects" that would have statewide impact. The SEC is what finally shut down Northern Pass project. Its not anti development but it forces overall state and regional impacts to be reviewed under a single unified government approach. Maine does not have anything similar and IMHO CMP used the disjointed approach Maine tries to use to their advantage. BTW there are bills in front of the Maine legislature to put in a more unified approach to large projects after the fact.

  13. #88
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    Sad to see that such significant regional history is being forgotten..
    Well, I didn't live here then, I lived in CA at the time, so it wasn't "forgotten".

    You stated that the project was moved to Maine:

    "Luckily unlike Maine, NH had a functional statewide process for dealing with large projects, left over from a large oil refinery project and higher visibility and this project got moved to Maine. It far more out of sight and out of mind to the typical outdoor enthusiast than NH and thus the title of the thread "Should we care?" "

    So, that is why I asked where the refinery is in Maine.

    Perhaps you are thinking of this proposed refinery in ME, which was also defeated. About 10 years later.

    https://www.nrcm.org/nrcm-success-st...-oil-refinery/

    And, according to the history I read online, that project in NH was largely stopped due to the efforts of three women:

    https://granitegeek.concordmonitor.c...hire-seacoast/

    And it looks like the "process" that NH used, at least initially, was state sanctioned NIMBY.

    I'm not saying I'm in favor of any of these projects. As far as I am concerned, MA residents should build their own power plants, nuclear of course.
    Last edited by maineguy; 01-17-2021 at 09:55 AM.

  14. #89
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    It comes down to grammar which I dont pretend to be an expert The "this" referred to CPC not the oil refinery.

    As for what and how the 1974 project was voted down I was in high school. I did on the other hand have to get to know the SEC commission process as I had to sit before on on a proposed project in Berlin. As part of the prep we have a former PUC commissioner assisting us and he was the that gave us the history on the SEC. I didnt represent that the SEC process stopped the 1974 refinery I represented that SEC was set up for Megaprojects. I guess I skipped that the NH SEC regs were put in place after the 1974 project.

    I guess we can agree on one thing, Mass should be generating their own "carbon neutral" power, be it nuclear or other.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    It comes down to grammar which I dont pretend to be an expert The "this" referred to CPC not the oil refinery.

    As for what and how the 1974 project was voted down I was in high school. I did on the other hand have to get to know the SEC commission process as I had to sit before on on a proposed project in Berlin. As part of the prep we have a former PUC commissioner assisting us and he was the that gave us the history on the SEC. I didnt represent that the SEC process stopped the 1974 refinery I represented that SEC was set up for Megaprojects. I guess I skipped that the NH SEC regs were put in place after the 1974 project.

    I guess we can agree on one thing, Mass should be generating their own "carbon neutral" power, be it nuclear or other.
    Massachuseets should either work on generating their own power, or work on significantly reducing what they already use. They can't be the same people behind "RESTORE" the north woods and then want to build a power corridor through the same woods. When CMP was locally owned and operated, it was a much better steward. Now that its foreign owned and operated, its universally hated.

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